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Re: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re: Variable Ballast Calculations, Bill



Hi Shawn.
 
Nice concept.  I like the bladder idea.
 
When you said..."Of course, the initial main ballast vent would be to the atmosphere since it'd probably take FOREVER to compress them into a tank."
 
Did you mean the initial vent would be to the interior hull atmosphere keeping all the air inside like the Hunley, or to the outside water atmosphere and therefore
 
you would lose some air? I wasn't quite sure what you meant on that.
 
Bill
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Shawn H.
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re: Variable Ballast Calculations, Bill

Regardless, you still need compressed air to blow the tanks.  Exterior main ballast tanks really only need to be blown near the surface, where the pressure is less (unless you need some kind of emergency blow).  Just enough to keep you afloat/sink.  It's always smarter to have a pressure tank instead of going "direct".  The main ship compressor simply maintains say a 3000 psi level at all times, either from surface air or bladder air.  All other ballast tanks are blown from here.  Military subs go up and down in this way I'm sure as it doesnt give off any bubbles, and they raise/lower depth an unlimited amount of time; simply recycling the air they have.
 
Figure, you can hold a closet-full of air inside a small scuba tank.  That's plenty.  Of course, the initial main ballast vent would be to the atmosphere since it'd probably take FOREVER to compress them into a tank.    Being able to get the air back into the sub just seems like an extra layer of flexibility, albeit unnecessary since you can just use the outside air - hehe. That main vent would simply be a one-way valve to keep the water out of the bladder btw.
 
As for the rest of the smaller ballast/trim tanks they could more easily/quickly be compressed back into the main compressor tank.
 
I guess you could say if you had a ballast/trim system that really only employed a few tanks it'd be beneficial to use a bladder as u could use it at depth to raise/lower depth without wasting air or having to build a bulky ballast tank.  The positive pressure outside the bladder aids in getting the air back into the main compressor tanks. 
 
Anyways, just thoughts.  Those kevlar pressure bags are very expensive.   But it limits component exposure to the elements and cuts down on airspace.  Only really pays if you're building the "ultimate sub" and mostly is beneficial for consumable and waste tanks.  Using them for ballast tanks just cuts down on the steel I guess.  Still fun to dream though.   :)
 
All in all, composites are the future for sub-building.  We all know this.  Fun to think of ways to apply the technology.
 
SH
 
p.s.
btw, I looked up a few compressors.  The ones fire departments use can do like 20 cubit feet/minute at 6,000 psi.  Obviously much faster at lower pressures.  Of course, then you have to factor in the total airspace added from using a large compressor to begin with.  Would simply using more TANKS be better??  UGH!  too much to think about.