| Hi Sean and obviously to all fellow members, Les 
here in Australia monitoring all the blurb, it is 
all interesting and informative. Just a couple of thoughts, as with Doctors talking 
with their trained terminology, likewise, Engineers and the like, to those not 
in the field it does sound complicated,   inherently increased by those same professionals 
not having that other specialized field of knowing how to impart that 
knowledge. It is all in the way it is presented .....as a 
suggestion;  would it not be simpler to give an example of a simple 
workable format and then the related maths to confirm how it was established so 
that individuals can reverse engineer a simple format to assist them to 
understand the principles, maths and calculations easier, to apply to for more complicated  formats.       i.e.. 
A simple example if you like, to help them 
visualize and get an indication of exactly what is involved.              
eg. If someone in the club, engineering orientated, could, for the 
exercise, apply this to;                   
a simple cylinder say 1200mm diameter x 4meter long, no tapers                    
include  two normal round end caps no other orifices                  
  for maximum depth operating 300feet add the 
safety margin say 25% or whatever the recommendation is                    
then calculate the requirements using solid sheet 
steel and say what thickness is required to withstand the appropriate 
pressure.                  
 then calculate what steel thickness is required with stiffeners at a set 
spans and give those dimensions of material  for the same pressure.                   
Perhaps even the same cylinder confiuration at 200 feet and 100feet  and 50 
feet to give people a feel of the material sizes and weight  changes 
 for                 
   each  depth pressure.              What 
this does for the layperson is give them a perception of size, shape, steel 
dimensions, weight etc.of what they should be considering ,which also acts             as a 
reasonable check to their later calculations with tapers and other shapes, 
and conning towers, considering dynamic loads etc.             They 
then have an idea of what expectations should be for  the environment 
they are calculating for .........a base line if you 
like.             The 
disciplines that are required to build a successful submarine are many and there 
are very few who have mastered them all, but so many logical practical  
             people 
can more quickly gain an learn if they are given a base line in all 
areas         
    For example until you are give a weight indication of an 
unknown item you are completely in the dark unless it is your 
field.             For 
example, the size and weight of an appropriate re-breather unit for a 
given number of persons and hours of use etc.                                  
 How much volume a 1000litres of liquid takes up, the weight of a 1000 
litres of liquid etc. the size and weight of appropriate batteries 
etc.                                 This 
is the same for all of us outside our normal expertise ...a fact often forgotten 
by those within it.                              
   The list is endless.....but once you have an indication (an 
example) of requirements the mind can perceive and calculate and work out 
accordingly,                                   
at least a rough indication anyway.                                  
It is a simple thing really..........how many of us can even visualize 
what 10 million $1 notes look like,  let alone how 
much                                
 volume, or how much weight is involved. ...yes we can, given the weight of 
one note and the size of one note, whether new or old notes, and how 
                                 
tightly they can be bound etc we can work it 
out eventually, but until then we have absolutely no idea.                                 
However a given indication, is enough to 
be informative enough to roughly gauge 
these specifications of any amount.  Well I have waffled on enough, I hope this simple 
 suggestion is a positive one and seen as useful  to aid new members, 
even some old ones .........on the lighter side, if anyone was comfortable in 
visualising that 10million $1 question without assistance .. ... we all 
want to be your friend and sit with you  in  your room and count it with you. Cheers  Les from down under. ----- Original Message -----  
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