[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design depth



Dear Sean,

First of all excuse me for writing that equation in a casual manner which mislead you to discuss about P = rho * g * h. Of course I'll have to multiply value of g to my density in order to calculate the depth. Pardon me for the miscommunication.

The reason I asked the question was because of the approach i had taken. I was following different criteria (failure modes) to find the design depth, instead of setting it as my input parameter in a first place. But now I am clear on that and I will find the value of P for my required Depth and then I'll compare it with calculated allowable P.

Thanks anyway.



On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Sean T. Stevenson <cast55@telus.net> wrote:
Jinesh - what you are asking is a pretty basic physics question, and I don't want to make any assumptions about your background, but I would like to be sure that you are working within your comfort zone with this stuff - otherwise the results could be disastrous.

That said, as a good reality check for any calculation, if you are unsure, check that the units work out.  For example, when you supposed:


>> Is it just,  depth = (P.allowable/density of water)

If you look at the dimensions of each quantity, pressure is force divided by area, and density is mass divided by volume.  Illustrating this with SI units, dividing pressure [N/m^2] by density [kg/m^3] gives you [N*m/kg] or [J/kg], which is specific energy - obviously not a depth unit.

To answer your question, the pressure at a given depth is found by the equation

P = rho * g * h, where rho is the fluid density, g is the acceleration due to gravity, and h is the height of the water column.  For example, at a depth of 800 meters in salt water:

P = 1025 [kg/m^3] * 9.80665 [m/s] * 800 [m] = 8 041 453 [N/m^2] or [Pa], or 8.04 MPa, relative to the sea surface.  Standard atmospheric pressure is 101.325 kPa which would then be added to this value to get the absolute pressure.

-Sean



On 08/12/2010 6:02 PM, jinesh gandhi wrote:
Thanks Sean.

I perfectly got your point. I have values for all the P.allowable ready with me for all the criteria listed in ABS guidelines. I also have my assumed design depth ready. How can I co-relate my design depth with minimum P.allowable?

Is it just,  depth = (P.allowable/density of water)

or any other equation that co-relates these two variable?

Thanks,
Jinesh

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 5:47 PM, Sean T. Stevenson <cast55@telus.net> wrote:
On Wednesday 08 December 2010 17:28:22 you wrote:
> Hello People,
>
>    I am trying to carry out design calculations for the pressure Hull,
> according to the ABS guidelines. However, I couldn't find a section in the
> Guidelines suggesting how to find design depth for the sub.
>
> I have been using Hull Calculator (found on psubs website) as a reference
> for my calculations.  Also, I've found different criteria (equations) to
> find the design depth on different sources.
>
> Can anyone suggest me what equation to use to find the design depth?
>
> TIA,
> Jinesh


Design depth is an input which governs your design (i.e. you determine the
depth capability you need and design to meet it).  If you look at the ABS
guide, each of the metallic pressure boundary component sections (i.e.
cylindrical sections, cones, spheres) has equations which allow you to
calculate a P_cr, which is the short term critical pressure (minimum possible
failure pressure) for the dominant mode of failure for the particular
component.  In addition, you will find a usage factor which is some multiplier
of P_cr appropriate to the failure condition.  The usage factor multiplied by
P_cr gives the maximum allowable working pressure for the component under
consideration.  Typically, you want to design your sub such that P_allowable
is equivalent for each hull component - otherwise, you are making components
heavier or more complicated than they need to be, because the lowest
P_allowable will fail first.  The only caveat to this process is that you want
your first failure mode (lowest P_allowable) to be a strength failure and not
a buckling failure, since this is deterministic.