----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 9:16
AM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Composite Huls - self annealing?
I just came up with another interesting
idea. We all know the basis behind the autoclave right? An
autoclave is basically a huge PRESSURE VESSEL with a heating element
inside. So, why re-invent the wheel? Simply reverse the
thinking:
Prefab D.O.T. pressure vessels usually have the
stringers on the outside, this is good. They also come with
endcaps. Simply have one made that can handle internal pressures with
temps 250F+. (most chemical storage tanks meet this I presume).
Next, we install a compressor at one
endcap. Then, a power supply with a heating element on the other, that
runs the length of the cylinder. Or better yet, if you can, install
them both on the same side.
The CF is then laid on the INSIDE of the tube,
closed up, and pressure cooked. The autoclave itself is the
outside shell of the sub.
Once you've laid as much CF as you want, you
remove the compressor and the heating element and voila - strongest personal
sub. in the world. You could also have the heat source on the OUTSIDE,
but this doesnt guarantee uniform temp. dispersal.
This technique makes simple sense
to me, because the high internal pressures are pushing the CF to the
shell while curing, as well as eliminating the voids WITHIN the CF and
between it and the shell.
Only other thing I could think of is maybe
using the shell to lay some kind of thermoplastic, probably on the
outside. The shell could be heated to accomodate it and then cooled to
solidify it. Thermoplastics are actually going to put autoclaves
out of business eventually, so they say.
Shawn
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 8:44
PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Composite Hull Calculations
Yah, the more I dig into composite sub
construction the more I realize how cutting edge it is. Hell, the
Navy is BARELY scratching the surface with this stuff. There ARE
autoclaves big enough to anneal a pretty large submarine (I think the
biggest U.S. autoclave is like 30ft x 75feet). The biggest expense
here seems to me in transporting the vessel and fabricating a
jig. Having something sit inside a pressure-cooker cant be all that
expensive can it? Also, everything would have to be pre-designed
before you lay the CF, that is, anything that's going to lie outside the
normal geometry of the pressure hull. Very complex, just in the
design phase... but once designed, it's conceivable the construction
wouldnt be too difficult - MUCH easier then working 1/2" steel. In
reality, it IS wrapping a pressure vessel in CF; namely a 1/4" D.O.T.
vaccuum tank; another option is chemical storage tanks. Without the
wrapping or going to 1/2" steel it's just not worth it designing anything
that big and expensive, as you cant go very deep, even with stringers
every foot.
So like said before, getting the voids out of
the CF is the "sticky" part... hehe Laying up the CF is tough
too and you'd probably need laser guidance and multiple
bakings.
This pressure hull would be fitted inside an
ambient outer hull/frame able to hold its weight + lead ballast.
This makes it super strong and sturdy, as well you're not attaching
anything directly to the pressure hull later on in life. Areas
of acrylic could be used to transfer EM through the hull, as well as a
solid slab of steel in one section of the pressure hull void of CF.
Otherwise your standard electrical through-hulls would be
pre-installed.
BTW, if you're wondering why I'm referring to
1/2" steel, it's because the boat I'm drawing up is 9 feet x 45+ (havent
decided length yet).
All this is fascinating to me...
'course, anything can be done if u throw enough money at it.
:)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005
6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Composite Hull Calculations
It looks like a lot of the research and analysis software
out there is aimed at wrapping a metal pressure vessel with carbon fiber, or
other filament materials. I think the fibers are mostly in tension
in this application and it just seems to me a little easier problem than
wrapping a steel shell for compression. It might be a unique use
or situation: even a scuba tank will always have a greater internal
pressure than ambient so I'm having trouble thinking of an application
other than a 1atm diving vessels where you'd see a higher external
pressure applied to a shell. ?? And the added buoyancy would
be a negative...
I found some mention of this software, but
couldn't actually find much description or anywhere to download or
purchase it. It sounds fairly good but is for filament
winding and for pressure vessels. And I'd say too that any
through-hulls will greatly increase the engineering over a simple
pressure bottle with one fitting/valve.
NASA code
CF-72124 computer program for the
analysis
of filament wound reinforced metal
shell pressure vessels
On 11/7/05, Shawn
H. <gambit7@bellsouth.net
> wrote:
Yah, I was thinking about the autoclave
process. What about a huge vacuum bag?? Would that be
sufficient? (I have a feeling you're gonna say no)
Ideally, a 1/2" steel tank would be great... but really hard to
find pre-fab from what I can see (in the size I'm looking
for). Doing the hull in sections small enough to bake
and/or place under vacuum is another idea, but then you have to worry
about joining. Argh! Now I see how this can get
obsessive.