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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Composite Hull Calculations



Yah, the more I dig into composite sub construction the more I realize how cutting edge it is.  Hell, the Navy is BARELY scratching the surface with this stuff.  There ARE autoclaves big enough to anneal a pretty large submarine (I think the biggest U.S. autoclave is like 30ft x 75feet).  The biggest expense here seems to me in transporting the vessel and fabricating a jig. Having something sit inside a pressure-cooker cant be all that expensive can it? Also, everything would have to be pre-designed before you lay the CF, that is, anything that's going to lie outside the normal geometry of the pressure hull.  Very complex, just in the design phase... but once designed, it's conceivable the construction wouldnt be too difficult - MUCH easier then working 1/2" steel.  In reality, it IS wrapping a pressure vessel in CF; namely a 1/4" D.O.T. vaccuum tank; another option is chemical storage tanks.  Without the wrapping or going to 1/2" steel it's just not worth it designing anything that big and expensive, as you cant go very deep, even with stringers every foot.
 
So like said before, getting the voids out of the CF is the "sticky" part... hehe  Laying up the CF is tough too and you'd probably need laser guidance and multiple bakings. 
 
This pressure hull would be fitted inside an ambient outer hull/frame able to hold its weight + lead ballast.  This makes it super strong and sturdy, as well you're not attaching anything directly to the pressure hull later on in life.  Areas of acrylic could be used to transfer EM through the hull, as well as a solid slab of steel in one section of the pressure hull void of CF.  Otherwise your standard electrical through-hulls would be pre-installed. 
 
BTW, if you're wondering why I'm referring to 1/2" steel, it's because the boat I'm drawing up is 9 feet x 45+ (havent decided length yet).  
 
All this is fascinating to me...  'course, anything can be done if u throw enough money at it.  :)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Composite Hull Calculations

It looks like a lot of the research and analysis software out there is aimed at wrapping a metal pressure vessel with carbon fiber, or other filament materials.  I think the fibers are mostly in tension in this application and it just seems to me a little easier problem than wrapping a steel shell for compression.  It might be a unique use or situation: even a scuba tank will always have a greater internal pressure than ambient so I'm having trouble thinking of an application other than a 1atm diving vessels where you'd see a higher external pressure applied to a shell.  ??  And the added buoyancy would be a negative...


I found some mention of this software, but couldn't actually find much description or anywhere to download or purchase it. It sounds fairly good but is for filament winding and for pressure vessels.  And I'd say too that any through-hulls will greatly increase the engineering over a simple pressure bottle with one fitting/valve.

NASA code CF-72124 computer program for the analysis
of filament wound reinforced metal shell pressure vessels



On 11/7/05, Shawn H. <gambit7@bellsouth.net > wrote:
Yah, I was thinking about the autoclave process.  What about a huge vacuum bag??  Would that be sufficient?  (I have a feeling you're gonna say no)   Ideally, a 1/2" steel tank would be great...  but really hard to find pre-fab from what I can see (in the size I'm looking for).   Doing the hull in sections small enough to bake and/or place under vacuum is another idea, but then you have to worry about joining.  Argh!  Now I see how this can get obsessive.