Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] UPS Submersible

[Steven Mills <cirtemoeg@juno.com>]

Peter,

My comment on "Ultimate" was rhetorical, but you did touch on a few
things that illustrate how subjective this could be. One is the cost and
the other high tech materials. They do go hand in hand. As demand
becomes greater and mass production takes effect the cost of materials
go down ie., the price of that fuel cell. But, something better always
come
along; a better fuel cell or energy source priced high in the beginning
then lower as time passes.  Then it starts all over again.   Unless,
someone
comes up with a ZPE device then nuclear reactors are out of the question
for us home-builder civilians.  I remember when hand calculators cost
$1200.
Now, I can buy them for 99 cents, solar-battery powered.
Then the type of materials for the vessel. I say go aluminum shell with
nanocarbon
fiber baked/cured onto it thru a high pressure autoclaving. But
nanocarbons
goes for $15K US per ounce not to mention cost of autoclave process and
cost of high grade aluminum alloy.
Do we go Mil-Spec with parts or off the shelf as you say. If this turns
into a
million dollar project, I know where one can buy a surplus submarine for
half
that [ sans fire control systems of course ].  Where does "ultimate" end,
I guess
in the eye and pocket of the beholder.  I don't have deep pockets and
even the
OSS project seems far away for me cost-wise. So my "ultimate" sub
is tadaaa...."Aquasub"  Not very ultimate is it  !  : )  or : (     take
your pick.

Sorry, if I seem to rant. 

As for studying NASA vehicles for ideas,  YEAH !  I have a few of those
NASA profiles
for the Gemini capsules and Apollo missions and I see possibilities.

So now that I have ranted should one give up on the idea for UPS. Heck no
!
Carry on my friend, because I'm still searching, too.

cheers, --Steve


On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 03:20:49 -0800 (PST) Peter  McKellar
<mckellar@earthlink.net> writes:
> Hi Steve et al,
> 
> i seem to remember the UPS thread (maybe its that drug damaged 
> memory tho :(
> 
> Before I kick off my 'impossible' list for the UPS I'll explain why:
> 
> I downloaded the psub starting sheet that asks all the questions 
> needed before you even start thinking about building a sub - how far 
> and fast on the surface (if autonomous), how deep, ambient/1atm etc.
> 
> It showed how few basics i had really considered.
> 
> I figured I would just max out all values and work back from there.
> 
> UPS:
> 
> 1. Surface range - unlimited
> 2. Surface speed - really fast
> 3. Underwater life support - unlimited
> 4. Underwater spedd - really fast (again)
> 5. Mission cost - almost nothing
> 6, scuttle valve (just threw that in for fun guys)
> 7. Fully autonomous
> 8. 1 ATM
> 
> The list went on.  
> 
> Then i remembered i worked with a guy that used to crew nuclear 
> subs.  he said they just found somewhere deep and quiet and then 
> grounded it for months at a time.  Of course without the reactor 
> onboard i would need another solution.
> 
> I was about to start cutting the expectations back when i thought of 
> checking a few NASA and related sites to see how they approach long 
> missions like the manned mars mission.  All of a sudden my list 
> wasn't looking so impossible.
> 
> Many of the things needed have been researched and products 
> developed or adapted.  They often used the same things subs have had 
> for years.  Whilst the tech is mostly there, the cost is the killer 
> :(
> 
> I've found a few sites that supplied the stuff i was after and have 
> even emailed a few.  I stopped using the word 'personal submarine' 
> and some started replying :) hahahahah
> 
> Costs and access to parts is sometimes tricky here in oz, so i have 
> a policy of local first if possible.  This is part national pride, 
> mostly practicality.  much the same as off the shelf (another 
> sidebar to my list). 
> 
> The good news is that the fuel cell i was looking at will be 
> available as a protoype in september 2004 - for a a mere $A100K :)  
> the better news is that this should come down around $A3K within 
> about 3 years.  Its preferred fuel is methane.  It may even be 
> cheaper by the time i build :)
> 
> I have a lot of thoughts on the UPS if anyone wants to continue this 
> thread, on or offline.
> 
> cheers
> peter
> 


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