Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Replicas (was: Decisions decisions decisions....)

[Dewey Mason <drmason2001@yahoo.com>]

Just build an 18 foot alligator, with the "sub" hidden
underwater. Everyone believes it on site, and the
natural length is right for a HUGE gator. The view
does stay a bit low off the water, but the effect
would be rather dramatic.
Dewey
--- Coalbunny <coalbunny@vcn.com> wrote:
> Yeah, the c-tower is a problem.  I figure that I
> could keep most of the
> details fairly accurate if I expanded the width of
> the c-tower.  I'm
> talking about nothing narrower than 2'6" for comfort
> reasons.
> 
> Nessie.  Hmmmmm.  Ideads man, ieas!  lol!  I have
> thought of that one
> fairly seriously, but the biggest concern I have is
> some nut out
> drinking and fishing, he sees Nessie and decides
> he's gonna take a REAL
> trophy home, .357 hole included!  Or whatever
> caliber he has. 
> Ordinarily this wouldn't be any concern.  But I have
> seen how psycho
> some guys get while out fishing and drinking.  Was
> out fishing with an
> uncle once back in '78 and we went by this one
> fellas "spot", opassed it
> by 20-30 meters, and he went super psycho.  Cussing
> at us, throwing
> empty beer bottles (and rocks when he was out of
> "empty" bottles) for
> "scaring the fish away".  Glad he didn't have a gun
> right handy.
> 
> In all reality, though that concern does remain in
> my mind, it's not as
> pronounced as it may seem.  So long as I'm aware of
> the potential
> problems and solutions, I feel I'm better off.
> 
> But that nessie idea would be nice.  I'll make that
> #8.
> Carl
> 
> 
> Michael B Holt wrote:
> > 
> > On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 19:49:50 -0700 Coalbunny
> writes:
> > >I have done a lot of thinking about this, and it
> has literally taken
> > >several years to make a concrete decision.  I
> have several ideas for a
> > >sub, but couldn't figure out which one I was
> going to build first.
> > 
> > Not yet at your Carsten Point!
> > 
> > >They were an ambient sub for treasure hunting, a
> submersable habitat, a
> > >replica sub and a real go-getter: an animal
> replica.  The last one
> > >would be fun, that's for sure.  Couldn't decide
> if I wanted it to be a
> > rainbow
> > >trout, great white shark or the Loch Ness
> monster.  Ask yourself what
> > >you'd be thinking if you saw one of those in a
> lake.  I think you get
> > >the idea why I like that idea so much!
> > 
> > Hey, I read a great sci-fi story about the
> animal-replica idea!  It was
> > written by a French writer in the 19th century.  
> A good translation
> > wasn't available until a couple of years ago, but
> it's a good one even
> > in bad translations.   The math works in the
> recent version, though.
> > 
> > Seriously, I did read somewhere that the best
> 19th-century book
> > about submarine design was Verne's classic.   Once
> the math works
> > right, the boat become a reasonable design.
> > 
> > >So from the legal standpoint, what are your
> thoughts on the replicas?
> > >My concern is someone going psycho after seeing a
> great white shark in
> > >Lake Powell and me being liable for it.  Is that
> possible?  I think it's
> > >very realistic in this day and age.  And the
> liability issue is one of
> > >the deciding factors.
> > 
> > I dunno about liability.   That might be a huge
> problem for an animal
> > replica.   Common sense and education in natural
> sciences seem
> > to have been left behind in the last decades.
> > 
> > When I was a teen, I sketched out a
> Nessie-inspired plesiosaur
> > replica.   The long neck held a "sensor suite" of
> cameras, sonar
> > and IR stuff (this was before LLTV).   Other than
> that, it was a lot
> > like Cousteau's Diving Saucer with a stub tail and
> fins that ended
> > in four large electric motors in pods.
> > 
> > >The other replicas would be of a larger sub.  One
> in particular I have
> > >been considering is the USS Nautilus, SSN 571. 
> One thing to remember
> > >is that on a replica, I would prefer staying as
> close to exact scale as
> > >possible.  I realize that in some areas this
> can't be done.  Like the
> > >c-tower, for example.  For something toliterally
> be an exact replica,
> > >I know the size would be enormous.
> > 
> > I was thinking about this the other day.   The
> problem with a replica
> > properly scaled is that the conning towers of real
> subs are usually
> > very small.   To fit the head of a normal human,
> the entire sub has to
> > be huge.  A Gato's conning tower -- the part with
> the people in it -- is
> > eight feet in diameter.   To fit your head into
> it, it can't be much
> > smaller
> > than two feet across.   That means a properly
> scaled Gato shrinks to
> > a terrifying 77.5 feet long.   If the humans fit
> into the pressure hull
> > alone,
> > we're still stuck with a monster 69 feet long
> (assuming a pressure
> > hull diameter of 18 feet).
> > 
> > On the other hand, a Typhoon has a comfortably
> large sail ... but
> > the overall boat is huge.   The top part of the
> sail is about one-third
> > of the beam of the boat; that means the sail is 25
> feet wide.  Taking
> > that down to 2 feet wide would not quite work
> because the shoulders
> > -- attached to the aforementioned head -- would
> not fit in the wide
> > part at the base of the sail.  However, if the
> head sticks up only in
> > the wide base of the sail, the view is limited to
> something that would
> > be good only in a movie (along the deck).   So
> making the top part
> > of the sail 4 feet wide means the replica is 156
> feet, 3 inches, long.
> > 
> > A few months ago I was shown a Gato replica that
> was about
> > 3 feet long.  The conning tower was an accurate
> shape but was
> > on a hull that was about a third of the correct
> length.  That might
> > be a good approach: shorten the hull but keep the
> shape.
> > 
> > All this suggests --  to me, anyway --  that the
> Seehund is the best
> > one to replicate in a smaller size.   Reducing a
> Seehund's 5.5 feet
> > beam to 4 feet means the whole thing drops to 28
> feet, 4 inches.
> > Shorten the hull a bit -- to, say, 24 feet, by
> removing some length
> > forward of the conning tower -- and the thing
> becomes buildable.
> > 
> > A Biber is pretty good for the same thing. 
> Reducing the beam
> > from 5.25 feet to 4 feet -- keeping the right
> scale -- reduces the
> > boat to 22.5 feet.  That's even better.  Removing
> some of the
> > length forward and abaft the conning tower would
> be possible
> > here, too.
> > 
> > I'm going to keep working on the Argonaut Junior,
> for now.
> > Holland's first boat is still on my list of boats
> to re-create,
> > too.   Both of those can be built full-sized, and
> still fit easily
> > on a small trailer.
> > 
> > On the other hand, an 18-foot rainbow trout would
> be a lot of fun.
> > Or maybe a turtle or an ichthyosaur.   Hmmm .....
> > 
> > (I have entirely too much time on my hands.   I
> need a couple of
> 
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