Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Replicas (was: Decisions decisions decisions....)

[Coalbunny <coalbunny@vcn.com>]

lol!  Yeah, and if I went and floated that sub in the Colorado River by
Grand Junction Colorado, I'd definetly be in the news!  About 10-15
years back some kids broke into a wildlife zoo, and two gators got
loose.  They found one dead in the Colorado river, but they never did
find the other one....
Carl


Dewey Mason wrote:
> 
> Just build an 18 foot alligator, with the "sub" hidden
> underwater. Everyone believes it on site, and the
> natural length is right for a HUGE gator. The view
> does stay a bit low off the water, but the effect
> would be rather dramatic.
> Dewey
> --- Coalbunny <coalbunny@vcn.com> wrote:
> > Yeah, the c-tower is a problem.  I figure that I
> > could keep most of the
> > details fairly accurate if I expanded the width of
> > the c-tower.  I'm
> > talking about nothing narrower than 2'6" for comfort
> > reasons.
> >
> > Nessie.  Hmmmmm.  Ideads man, ieas!  lol!  I have
> > thought of that one
> > fairly seriously, but the biggest concern I have is
> > some nut out
> > drinking and fishing, he sees Nessie and decides
> > he's gonna take a REAL
> > trophy home, .357 hole included!  Or whatever
> > caliber he has.
> > Ordinarily this wouldn't be any concern.  But I have
> > seen how psycho
> > some guys get while out fishing and drinking.  Was
> > out fishing with an
> > uncle once back in '78 and we went by this one
> > fellas "spot", opassed it
> > by 20-30 meters, and he went super psycho.  Cussing
> > at us, throwing
> > empty beer bottles (and rocks when he was out of
> > "empty" bottles) for
> > "scaring the fish away".  Glad he didn't have a gun
> > right handy.
> >
> > In all reality, though that concern does remain in
> > my mind, it's not as
> > pronounced as it may seem.  So long as I'm aware of
> > the potential
> > problems and solutions, I feel I'm better off.
> >
> > But that nessie idea would be nice.  I'll make that
> > #8.
> > Carl
> >
> >
> > Michael B Holt wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 19:49:50 -0700 Coalbunny
> > writes:
> > > >I have done a lot of thinking about this, and it
> > has literally taken
> > > >several years to make a concrete decision.  I
> > have several ideas for a
> > > >sub, but couldn't figure out which one I was
> > going to build first.
> > >
> > > Not yet at your Carsten Point!
> > >
> > > >They were an ambient sub for treasure hunting, a
> > submersable habitat, a
> > > >replica sub and a real go-getter: an animal
> > replica.  The last one
> > > >would be fun, that's for sure.  Couldn't decide
> > if I wanted it to be a
> > > rainbow
> > > >trout, great white shark or the Loch Ness
> > monster.  Ask yourself what
> > > >you'd be thinking if you saw one of those in a
> > lake.  I think you get
> > > >the idea why I like that idea so much!
> > >
> > > Hey, I read a great sci-fi story about the
> > animal-replica idea!  It was
> > > written by a French writer in the 19th century.
> > A good translation
> > > wasn't available until a couple of years ago, but
> > it's a good one even
> > > in bad translations.   The math works in the
> > recent version, though.
> > >
> > > Seriously, I did read somewhere that the best
> > 19th-century book
> > > about submarine design was Verne's classic.   Once
> > the math works
> > > right, the boat become a reasonable design.
> > >
> > > >So from the legal standpoint, what are your
> > thoughts on the replicas?
> > > >My concern is someone going psycho after seeing a
> > great white shark in
> > > >Lake Powell and me being liable for it.  Is that
> > possible?  I think it's
> > > >very realistic in this day and age.  And the
> > liability issue is one of
> > > >the deciding factors.
> > >
> > > I dunno about liability.   That might be a huge
> > problem for an animal
> > > replica.   Common sense and education in natural
> > sciences seem
> > > to have been left behind in the last decades.
> > >
> > > When I was a teen, I sketched out a
> > Nessie-inspired plesiosaur
> > > replica.   The long neck held a "sensor suite" of
> > cameras, sonar
> > > and IR stuff (this was before LLTV).   Other than
> > that, it was a lot
> > > like Cousteau's Diving Saucer with a stub tail and
> > fins that ended
> > > in four large electric motors in pods.
> > >
> > > >The other replicas would be of a larger sub.  One
> > in particular I have
> > > >been considering is the USS Nautilus, SSN 571.
> > One thing to remember
> > > >is that on a replica, I would prefer staying as
> > close to exact scale as
> > > >possible.  I realize that in some areas this
> > can't be done.  Like the
> > > >c-tower, for example.  For something toliterally
> > be an exact replica,
> > > >I know the size would be enormous.
> > >
> > > I was thinking about this the other day.   The
> > problem with a replica
> > > properly scaled is that the conning towers of real
> > subs are usually
> > > very small.   To fit the head of a normal human,
> > the entire sub has to
> > > be huge.  A Gato's conning tower -- the part with
> > the people in it -- is
> > > eight feet in diameter.   To fit your head into
> > it, it can't be much
> > > smaller
> > > than two feet across.   That means a properly
> > scaled Gato shrinks to
> > > a terrifying 77.5 feet long.   If the humans fit
> > into the pressure hull
> > > alone,
> > > we're still stuck with a monster 69 feet long
> > (assuming a pressure
> > > hull diameter of 18 feet).
> > >
> > > On the other hand, a Typhoon has a comfortably
> > large sail ... but
> > > the overall boat is huge.   The top part of the
> > sail is about one-third
> > > of the beam of the boat; that means the sail is 25
> > feet wide.  Taking
> > > that down to 2 feet wide would not quite work
> > because the shoulders
> > > -- attached to the aforementioned head -- would
> > not fit in the wide
> > > part at the base of the sail.  However, if the
> > head sticks up only in
> > > the wide base of the sail, the view is limited to
> > something that would
> > > be good only in a movie (along the deck).   So
> > making the top part
> > > of the sail 4 feet wide means the replica is 156
> > feet, 3 inches, long.
> > >
> > > A few months ago I was shown a Gato replica that
> > was about
> > > 3 feet long.  The conning tower was an accurate
> > shape but was
> > > on a hull that was about a third of the correct
> > length.  That might
> > > be a good approach: shorten the hull but keep the
> > shape.
> > >
> > > All this suggests --  to me, anyway --  that the
> > Seehund is the best
> > > one to replicate in a smaller size.   Reducing a
> > Seehund's 5.5 feet
> > > beam to 4 feet means the whole thing drops to 28
> > feet, 4 inches.
> > > Shorten the hull a bit -- to, say, 24 feet, by
> > removing some length
> > > forward of the conning tower -- and the thing
> > becomes buildable.
> > >
> > > A Biber is pretty good for the same thing.
> > Reducing the beam
> > > from 5.25 feet to 4 feet -- keeping the right
> > scale -- reduces the
> > > boat to 22.5 feet.  That's even better.  Removing
> > some of the
> > > length forward and abaft the conning tower would
> > be possible
> > > here, too.
> > >
> > > I'm going to keep working on the Argonaut Junior,
> > for now.
> > > Holland's first boat is still on my list of boats
> > to re-create,
> > > too.   Both of those can be built full-sized, and
> > still fit easily
> > > on a small trailer.
> > >
> > > On the other hand, an 18-foot rainbow trout would
> > be a lot of fun.
> > > Or maybe a turtle or an ichthyosaur.   Hmmm .....
> > >
> > > (I have entirely too much time on my hands.   I
> > need a couple of
> >
> === message truncated ===
> 
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