[PSUBS-MAILIST] Close circuit engine

[MerlinSub@t-online.de (Carsten Standfuß)]

Carsten - from Germany

To Cap.Nemo - The explode close circuit engine in the 
X 1 in May 1957 was a special unit use the Walter fuel : H2-O2,
and yes this fuel is very dangerous. Also the exploding submarines
of the british navy (the nick name of HMS Explorer was - Exploderer) 
after the war and the russian navy use this very dangerous fuel -
normally use in germany during WWII
for oneman - rocket- fighterplanes (which normally also 
exploded during start, flying or landing..)..

A normal circuit diesel engine with a diesel engine with
diesel fuel and oxgyen from bottles and removing the CO2
with a cleaner and a exaust compressor (made by an engineer)
is saved. 
They run this device in germany in 1904, 1932, 1944, 1945
and also 1986 in different submarines including
prototype midgets. Also the russian use this plants
in her "after the war" submarines with sucess. 

The problem for deep diving is the CO2-compressor. 
If you dive deeper and deeper the compressor needs more 
and more power because he had to press the CO2 exaust
out of the submarine against the deep pressure. 
In the german war subs they use a electric driven
petrol-engine as compressor..
Their is a deep-line were the compressor needs all 
the power of the main unit..

The other way used since 1986 is to clean the exaust
from C02 with a chemical-stuff - normally a lye. It is not nessesary
to remove the waste-lye from the sub during the dive 
operation and so the displacement of the sub is the hole time constant.
But unfortunatlly it produced a lot of waste-lye and
it is very expensive (in Germany) to keep this waste to 
a waste-scrapp-place onshore.  It much more expensive then to buy the
diesel fuel. One reason that this sub is not longer operational
is that it is to expensive..

Another problem is that you need a close engine compartment or a engine
compartment cooling system. The engine himself is cooled by the normal
seawater/freshwater cooler - but the radiation-heat of the engine
is the problem. In the test-subs with a closed engine compartment
the air get up to 60°C and more. 
A engine room air condition needs power.., a CO2 compressor
needs power.. - the smell in the sub is also a problem - you
need a clean-outside-surface engine without leaking points of oel
or similar or you get dust and smell. 

But you need only a very small main battery - and normaly
you have to remove the main battery all 4-6 years..

For me this close cicurit diesel engine is still intressting because
the cost for the 5t main battery is a point.. And the 
close cicurit parts are not so expensive than a full
powerful electric main drive system including generator, 
main motor, switches, mainboard, battery controll, battery etc. 

For a singele or double seater submarine the C.C.D.S. will be to
difficult, but for a small autonomus sub with an endurance of a week and
a dive deep not so deep it will be great. 

regards Carsten



Henesy, Chris A. schrieb:
> 
>         On the topic of closed circuit propulsion... I was at Home Depot the
> other day and saw a new item on display.  It is an electric generator that
> runs off of a propane bottle instead of gasoline and it cost about $500.
> That would be great! Generate electricity to run motors and electrical
> systems, and all you have to do is scrub CO2.  I still think though if I was
> going to use one of these, I would partition the pressure hull into two
> sections with the engine sealed off in the rear with it's own O2 feed, CO2
> scrubber and CO2/O2 monitor.
> 
>         -Chris