Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Close circuit engine

["D. Blake" <dblake@bright.net>]

Just a thought.  What if there were a two-hull design as mentioned earlier
with the manned-hull 1atm and the propulsion-unit hull ambient?  Any benefit
with reduction of inside/outside pressure differential for closed circuit?

Big Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Carsten Standfuß <MerlinSub@t-online.de>
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 12:45 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Close circuit engine


>Carsten - from Germany
>
>To Cap.Nemo - The explode close circuit engine in the
>X 1 in May 1957 was a special unit use the Walter fuel : H2-O2,
>and yes this fuel is very dangerous. Also the exploding submarines
>of the british navy (the nick name of HMS Explorer was - Exploderer)
>after the war and the russian navy use this very dangerous fuel -
>normally use in germany during WWII
>for oneman - rocket- fighterplanes (which normally also
>exploded during start, flying or landing..)..
>
>A normal circuit diesel engine with a diesel engine with
>diesel fuel and oxgyen from bottles and removing the CO2
>with a cleaner and a exaust compressor (made by an engineer)
>is saved.
>They run this device in germany in 1904, 1932, 1944, 1945
>and also 1986 in different submarines including
>prototype midgets. Also the russian use this plants
>in her "after the war" submarines with sucess.
>
>The problem for deep diving is the CO2-compressor.
>If you dive deeper and deeper the compressor needs more
>and more power because he had to press the CO2 exaust
>out of the submarine against the deep pressure.
>In the german war subs they use a electric driven
>petrol-engine as compressor..
>Their is a deep-line were the compressor needs all
>the power of the main unit..
>
>The other way used since 1986 is to clean the exaust
>from C02 with a chemical-stuff - normally a lye. It is not nessesary
>to remove the waste-lye from the sub during the dive
>operation and so the displacement of the sub is the hole time constant.
>But unfortunatlly it produced a lot of waste-lye and
>it is very expensive (in Germany) to keep this waste to
>a waste-scrapp-place onshore.  It much more expensive then to buy the
>diesel fuel. One reason that this sub is not longer operational
>is that it is to expensive..
>
>Another problem is that you need a close engine compartment or a engine
>compartment cooling system. The engine himself is cooled by the normal
>seawater/freshwater cooler - but the radiation-heat of the engine
>is the problem. In the test-subs with a closed engine compartment
>the air get up to 60°C and more.
>A engine room air condition needs power.., a CO2 compressor
>needs power.. - the smell in the sub is also a problem - you
>need a clean-outside-surface engine without leaking points of oel
>or similar or you get dust and smell.
>
>But you need only a very small main battery - and normaly
>you have to remove the main battery all 4-6 years..
>
>For me this close cicurit diesel engine is still intressting because
>the cost for the 5t main battery is a point.. And the
>close cicurit parts are not so expensive than a full
>powerful electric main drive system including generator,
>main motor, switches, mainboard, battery controll, battery etc.
>
>For a singele or double seater submarine the C.C.D.S. will be to
>difficult, but for a small autonomus sub with an endurance of a week and
>a dive deep not so deep it will be great.
>
>regards Carsten
>
>
>
>Henesy, Chris A. schrieb:
>>
>>         On the topic of closed circuit propulsion... I was at Home Depot
the
>> other day and saw a new item on display.  It is an electric generator
that
>> runs off of a propane bottle instead of gasoline and it cost about $500.
>> That would be great! Generate electricity to run motors and electrical
>> systems, and all you have to do is scrub CO2.  I still think though if I
was
>> going to use one of these, I would partition the pressure hull into two
>> sections with the engine sealed off in the rear with it's own O2 feed,
CO2
>> scrubber and CO2/O2 monitor.
>>
>>         -Chris
>