Jon, I think that your reply (below) to the course of this thread is exactly what the 'jist' of the conversation was. The 'What ifs' ran crazy and we all got kinda spun up about it. As a few of us have stated, the ABS, Lloyd's and other certifiers are excellent to use as construction guides for those of us without funding, such as Phil's, for certification. That's not to say that the day may come when there is legislation for Psubs to be required to have certification but, for now we should follow those guides in good faith. This is for safety, plain and simple. I rarely get involved in a conversation such as this, due to my 'noob' status as a designer and builder but, this is all important info for someone like myself. I have a copy of the ABS specs on my computer and I reference that and some of the other links and guides listed on the site for info on construction and design. The reinforcement guides for hull penetrations are one such example. The more information builders have to guide their design and construction process the more likely it will be that their sub will be safe, the self-policing will be a formality and that dreaded anti-psub legislation will never happen. DISCLAIMER: This is just my newbie opinion and as such is subject to flaming by the senior members. AT1(AW/SW) Benjamin T. Fritz CNATTU Jax, MTU 1011 AVI Phase, 542-5361x207 -----Original Message----- From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jon Wallace Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 10:01 To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] submarine kit-builder's society rules Hi Ian, We have a lot less information on dive time, however I hope to change that by the end of the year with a side project I am working on. Yet another topic I planned for the business meeting some months ago. I am almost ready to announce availability of the first part of that project, probably in the next couple of weeks. If I am unable to finish it by July 14 I would still be happy to demo it for you in Florida. I don't believe there is any desire to invite legislation by any of us that would further restrict our hobby. This topic has morphed to that, but perhaps that is a good thing since the original discussion of using ABS (or GL, Lloyds, Nippon, take your pick) as a guide probably does not appear so offensive now. In regards to your first question of self-policing, I believe the concern is that someone with a poorly designed or fabricated vessel could someday kill themselves or someone else resulting in a well-intentioned politician taking action to protect the rest of us legislatively by requiring all subs be certified. There certainly is good argument as to whether that course would ever actually play out in the event of a private submariner death, and admittedly we cannot know for sure. If that time does arrive, then perception of this group will become important. Will we be seen as a disjointed group of individuals who ignore conventional wisdom, or will we be seen as a structured group who are concerned with safety and can demonstrate it? Jon
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