Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Important PSUBS Info - Please Read

[Jon Wallace <jonw@psubs.org>]

Thank you all for your comments.  We certainly have stirred things up a 
bit I guess.

I thoroughly understand your concerns as they have been expressed, and I 
think we have taken precautions to create a membership that does not 
unreasonably isolate or exclude anyone, is not elitist (newbie to expert 
are welcome), does not restrict people from researching information, and 
arguably does not restrict anyone from participating in online 
discussions.  If it were our intent to form an exclusive membership of 
elitists, it would be very easy to do.  I would simply clear the mailing 
list, only add the people we wanted to participate, and then block 
everyone else by ensuring I was the only one who could add people to the 
list instead of letting people register on their own.  Clearly we have 
not taken this approach and I would ask that you all give it a chance, 
and let's see how it unfolds.  As we find things that don't work, we can 
change them.

Regarding finances, we truly appreciate the offers that most of you have 
made to donate money and support us.  For those who have stated they 
were willing to donate money to myself and Ray for operational costs, we 
ask that you join PSUBS instead and support the organization through 
your membership.  From a business perspective it is better for any 
revenue to go through PSUBS LLC, than myself or Ray privately.  Your 
hard earned money is better accounted for that way, and the government 
is happier that way.  It is not only a more legitimate way of doing 
business, but from a financial perspective it will eventually lead to 
much better budgeting and forecasting abilities than our current method 
which goes something like, "hey Ray, how many t-shirts do you think 
we'll sell this year?"

Trying to secure some revenue for operations is only one reason for 
creating a membership, and from my perspective not the most important 
one.  More important is the additional structure and legitimacy that 
membership will provide the organization so we can secure recognition 
and respect within the industry we are part of.  This is the next step 
from just being "a group of guys who talk about submarines", to an 
organization that has influence and can draw the attention of industry 
peers as we grow.  As a legitimate organization we at least have a 
footing to work with when we need, or want, the attention of our 
industry peers or potential speakers for our conventions.  This is 
hardly a threatening proposition.  A "group of guys casually talking" in 
a forum has little influence and legitimacy to anyone other than the 
individuals participating in the discussion, and even that is dependent 
upon the level of respect they hold for each other.  There is 
unquestionably much more potential for any one individual to be excluded 
from the discussion between a "group of guys talking" in an unorganized 
forum, than within a formal organization such as we are proposing.  It's 
somewhat ironic to note that the accolades numerous people have extended 
regarding their experience with PSUBS over the years is due to the fact 
that we have operated it in nearly the identical format that we now 
simply want to formalize.

If all that is needed is a central location where a group of guys can go 
to share information about their submarine, then PSUBS.ORG has fulfilled 
its initial purpose and at the same time outlived it's usefulness.  In 
1997 when we formed PSUBS, the resources available today on the Internet 
did not exist.  Free websites, free email, free mailing lists, free 
groups, and free web forums were simply not available.  In 1997, our 
domain name cost us $100/year.  Today you can get domain names for about 
$5.00 a year.  We needed people with systems and software expertise, who 
had good reliable hardware available, and a good internet backbone.   
Today, with the free resources available on the Internet, there's no 
requirement for any of that and no need for Ray or myself to host a 
website or maintain a mailing list and web forum.  Accordingly, there is 
no need to donate money to Ray or myself for that level of service since 
any one of you can open your own submarine list on a free server from 
google or yahoo, and perform the same function.  If all that is needed 
is an informal group without structure, then we don't have to worry 
about coordinating conventions, giving out awards, finding speakers, or 
fronting money for expenses associated with them.  Whenever the urge 
hits someone, they can simply announce on the informal group list of 
their choice that they are hosting a "sub-diving" weekend at their 
particular location.  Everyone who can make it, just finds a place to 
stay where they can, and comes and goes as they please.  You put your 
photos up on Flickr, you put your video up on YouTube, and then simply 
put links to the same in your messages to the group.  You might have to 
put up with advertisements on a free server, but you can always ask for 
donations from the group and pay a fee so that the advertisements are 
suppressed.

PSUBS.ORG has outgrown a single purpose charter that limits it as a 
resource to meet other people interested in talking about home-built 
submarines.  It has exceeded that goal by any measurement and should be 
allowed to grow into other areas that benefit us as a group rather than 
solely as individuals.  We will be well served as individuals if we 
allow PSUBS to become an organization that can represent us as a group 
and have both impact and influence on our industry peers.  Additionally, 
PSUBS has grown bigger than any one of us, including myself and Ray.  It 
has both the visibility and momentum to survive us into another 
generation and should be organized to do exactly that.  The concept of 
having a formal membership is foreign to us, but in 12 years we have 
come as far as we are ever going to get in our current form.  PSUBS is 
recognized worldwide, but you won't find ABS or ASME sitting at our 
table, you won't find industry partnering with us, and you won't find 
the Coast Guard, Navy, Federal or local governments willing to talk 
about any concerns we might have, because we are just a "group of guys 
who talk about submarines".  Respect, recognition, and acceptance come 
at the expense of some amount of structure and management.  The 
membership plan we have put in place is as non-exclusive as you will 
find anywhere in regards to its impact on non-members.

For those who share our vision, we welcome you to join us as a member 
and help propel PSUBS into new areas, while maintaining what we have 
built over the past 12 years.  For those who feel this new vision is not 
worthy, you are welcome to continue using our non-member services as 
they suit you, and monitor our progress in hopes you see value in our 
vision at a future time.  If we must part ways because you feel you can 
do better by forming your own group and move in your own direction, we 
wish you no ill-will and hope we can work together with you in the future.

Jon




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