RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydraulic Steering

Hi Guys... Interesting Ideas with the Pedal system for operating the Rudder while submerged, I have been working thru this myself with my design.

I also would like Pedals to steer to keep my hands free for dive planes, thrusters and Valves operation.

So I looked at your system and seeing as I have used something similar on a boat where a Tiller was used to drive a rudder that was no longer situated directly below we put in a Hydraulic linkage similar to what your showing. Even with oversized hoses we had to extend the tiller to overcome the resistance.... Although Legs are stronger and your sub is not a 35foot wooden boat...

So I looked at your design and it dawned on me what I think I will do... I like using off the shelf stuff that can be modified as it is always cheaper, I would use a single slave ram on the rudder just like are used on many outboards and used on rudders on larger boats with inboard motors, many of these are sealed and would be fine working at even 100mSW I am told. (You could also use 2 smaller rams for redundancy).

Use an off the shelf boat Hydraulic steering wheel (These can be High or Low pressure) add into this an AutoPilot pump. Direct to this pump you can use Electrical Buttons at your feet instead of pedals to move the rudder left or right as well as being able to put a small steering wheel at your dive controls as well as another wheel (And buttons/joystick) at your surface controls... Another plus is if you like you can also install an autopilot to steer your Sub on an even course.. (just make sure that the compass is calibrated properly with all the steel around..

Just sharing my Ideas...

Dean Cropp

News Cameraman

Underwater Camera Specialist

Seven Network (Operations) Limited

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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kocourek
Sent: Friday, 9 May 2008 9:42
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydraulic Steering

Hi David,

While I am using mechanical linkage, I am also trying to simplify steering operations and have chosen to use a stick arrangement similar to older planes. The left/right moves the rudder/rear thruster and the forward back movement actuates the front dive planes/thrusters.

I preferedthe wheel arrangement originally, but space was a problem as two people would need to climb past it when boarding. My stick will be located just to the right of my seat and will be long enough to be operated from both the lower seated position as well as when standing in the hatchway.

Best of all the arrangement can also work as well with hydraulic actuaters.

Just another thought.

Best Regards,

Jim K

Besto lbmover  dt

----- Original Message -----

From: David Bartsch

To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org

Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 4:52 PM

Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydraulic Steering

   I would be very interested in this set up as it is exactly as I would like to have aboard my boat...The real deal used a handwheel on a pivotong mount. As you said, you control the rudder with left right turning of the wheel, and the dive planes by pushing or pulling on the entire pivot mount.

   Another area I wish to replicate with the real thing is the Main ballast tank vent valve. It is circular and is drawn down or into the ballast tank with hydraulics or as my application a mechanical screwing action, then allowing air to escape around a circular rubber lined opening. When on the surface, air pressure within the tank helps keep this well sealed. Diving is much faster than with a ball type air valve.

                                                                             David Bartsch

From: ShellyDalg@aol.com
Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:25:59 -0400
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydraulic Steering
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org

Hi David. Thanks. I will see if I can pick up some small cylinders and build a bench model to see what it takes to make it work. I would like to use this on the dive planes as well. That would probably mean using double acting cylinders. Jim K. brought this up a while back.

With reversible motors ( thrusters ) it shouldn't be a problem with dive plane angle. If the dive plane got stuck in the dive position because of seaweed or something, I can reverse the motors. In the event of a rupture or blown seal ( not likely due to the low pressure of the system ) where I lose the ability to push the dive plane, it has a fail safe so the dive plane goes to vertical. The motor mount is heavy on the back end and will also have a spring return. Once the motor/dive plane fails in vertical, a little juice to the motor, and up we go.

I don't show it on the sketch, but all the thru-hulls ( electric, hydraulic, or air ) have an isolation valve directly on the welded nipple going through the hull. In this way, I can set the dive plane angle and close the isolation valve to hold the dive plane in that position. If there's a little leakage and the dive plane starts to go back to vertical, a little stroke on the pedal will push it back down. Like I said, I'll have to build a bench system and see what valves etc. it takes to make it work.

It would be possible to set this all up on a lever where you could push it forward or back to operate the dive planes, and left or right to operate the rudders, all with just one stick. Kind of like the control stick on a helicopter or maybe closer to the wheel on an air plane.

I can still steer the sub on the surface while standing up with my head sticking out of the hatch by using the joysticks for the side thrusters which will be located in a movable control box connected via cables to the motor bus bar.. I have a sketch of that set-up that was on my frappr page a while back. It's very simple and the parts are easy to replace with off-the-shelf stuff, and inexpensive enough to carry spare parts so a dive day needn't be lost due to some small part failure.

I'll keep you guys posted on any progress I make. Frank D.

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