Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wetsub carrier water transport systems

["Brian Cox" <ojaivalleybeefarm@dslextreme.com>]

Is flooding with oil not and option for you?

Brian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <SFreihof@aol.com>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wetsub carrier water transport systems


> I would think inline one-way check valves could isolate the components so no hydrogen rich air from the batteries can enter the motor housings.  Perhaps you could use one supply line with the batteries check-valved and downstream from the motor, but I think two separate check-valved ambient supply lines would be best to isolate the components.  The downside is that check valves will create some pressure drop in the ambient supply line, so pressurization will lag behind by a few psi during descent.  Or so I suppose...
> 
> Stan
> 
> 
> In a message dated 1/25/2005 3:09:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Akins" <lakins1@tampabay.rr.com> writes:
> 
> >It could possibly be if I were not going to use hydrolators and hydrocaps which absorb any hydrogen and convert it into water.
> >Plus although there are trace amounts of hydrogen made during discharge, most ot the hydrogen is made when you charge and
> >I will be using the forced air while charging and not running the motor at that time as well. But good thinking though Vance.
> >Those hydrolators and hydrocaps had BETTER work. Lol. Nobody ever says subs are safe. Even just scuba diving isn't safe.
> >Heck, living isn't safe, it means you're going to die. Lol. But I will do my best to make it as safe as POSSIBLE.
> >
> >I guess it would be possible to seperate them. By NOT equalizing the pod and plugging the ends of the tubes that carry the wires from
> >the pod to the motor, and then carefully epoxying each end of each and every single wire to insure there was an airtight seal between the
> >wire's insulation and the wire strands so to preclude any air or hydrogen leakage thru the strands. I could crimp fittings onto the end of the wires
> >and then carefully expoxy over the insulation and the strands leaving only the round connector fitting not epoxied and insuring there was no missed
> >spots where air could leak thru the strand. I probably could do that and will further consider it. But for now unless I change my mind I am
> >banking on the hydrolator and hydrocaps. But again good thinking Vance. Keep helping me ok? I can use all I can get.
> >
> >
> >Kindest Regards,
> >Bill Akins.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ron
> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:14 AM
> > Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wetsub carrier water transport systems
> >
> >
> > Isn't having your motor and battery in the same air comp loop an invitation for a hydrogen gas explosion?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Akins
> > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 11:22 PM
> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wetsub carrier water transport systems
> >
> >
> > Hi Vance.
> >
> > You asked..."Speaking of which, how are you protecting the penetrations and electrical system?"
> >
> > I plan to use thru the hull stainless steel waterproof fittings for the penetrations. Flexible tubing for the wires with waterproof connections at the ends, and fuses as you suggested.
> >
> > You also asked..."It seems to me that the equalization process is more trouble than it is worth for the pod, which ought to be strong enough to dive where you expect to dive"
> >
> > Since I am going to equalize the motor with air, and since the motor is connected to the battery pod via the tubing holding the cables, I am really not going to any extra trouble to
> > equalize the pod. I know the strong pvc could take the depths I plan to dive at but it doesn't hurt to equalize the pod also. It would actually be hard to NOT equalize the pod when my
> > equalized motor has wiring going to the pod and even if I tried to block off any air from the motor from getting into the pod it would seep thru the wires themselves. So equalizing the motor
> > also pretty much automatically equalizes the battery pod in my case. As always I appreciate your's and everyone else input and advice. Putting our heads together always helps us brainstorm and
> > think things thru. I truly appreciate all your helpful posts along with everyone elses here.
> >
> > Kindest Regards,
> > Bill Akins.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: VBra676539@aol.com
> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:06 AM
> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wetsub carrier water transport systems
> >
> >
> > Launch and Retrieval Platform--they were (are?) towed aluminum catamaran rafts with grating decks and big ballast systems. Two divers piloted it, with the sub on deck. Take the LRP down to 60 feet or so, release the sub, surface. To go home, repeat in reverse. Sort of like what you have in mind, only they did the sub transfer underwater, where there was no wave action. Mucho important when you are trying to mate 5 tons of submarine to 5 tons of raft. Banging be a bad thing, I can assure you.
> >
> > Green gas beeze chlorine, yes. Pretty tough on the fire fighters, who were hoping like hell that the hydrogen we couldn't see was going to be nice and vent out of there without spitting Trojan batteries as projectiles. I've seen a pod go like that (in the shop at Perry) and brother, let me tell you, it ain't a pretty sight.
> >
> > Leak detectors are very simple in theory. It's just a little DC open-circuit deal that closes when shorted by water in the bilges or wherever and lights the light. Take a little block of PVC, attach two stiff wires a quarter inch or so apart, then glue or screw it on the inside pod bottom so the wires just clear the surface (1/8" to 1/4"). Then run a pair of wires from it, through the pressure vessel wall, and out to your cockpit. Make a little cannister of PVC or acrylic or something, as this is a wet sub, so things will stay dry. Inside, power it through switches with a couple of 9-volt batteries to LEDs or something, and a buzzer. Don't use the sub's main power system, as you want to know about a leak whether you are powered up or not. Keep it totally isolated and independant. Goop everything down so errant splashes and condensation won't cause any problems, and you're in business. Total cost, with batteries, $17.36 or thereabouts. (Okay, I'm guessing. It might go 20!
>   bucks).
> >
> > Speaking of which, how are you protecting the penetrations and electrical system? If you do have a leak, and a major short, straight cables will toast a hole in whatever is handy and blow you out of the water. A simple solution is to build in-line fuses. Size them to maximum draw for the system and cable, then cast them into PVC tubes using 3M goop or something non-flammable. A major short, such as you might expect with seawater intrustion, will pop the fuses and reduce your problem to the pod itself. We may all bow our heads now and pray that it never happens, but should it come about, at least you'd know what to run FROM!
> >
> > As for vents, I'd use SS fittings, maybe a 1/4" going in, and a 3/8" or 1/2" going out. Put bulkhead shutoffs near or directly into the pod, and valves up high. Hook a regulator to a gas supply, attach it to the goes-in valve, start a slow flow (just a little air action will do it) and you have your vent system. If you plumb it high on the boat, then you could charge in the water, no problem. Also, have the input line and output lines on opposite ends of the pod. You could do it with both fittings in one penetration, just run tubing from the input line (inside the pod) to the front.
> >
> > Compensation is another deal. If you were talking about oil, I could probably help, but I've never used air to do it. It seems to me that the equalization process is more trouble than it is worth for the pod, which ought to be strong enough to dive where you expect to dive. Psubs has some really creative guys who have experience with this, so I'm betting someone will help you out.
> >
> > If air compensation causes you problems, then you might want to consider modifying the motor housing to improve its capabilities. That will take some machine work. You'd want to cut a proper O-ring groove in the sections, and root out enough metal around the prop shaft to allow a pump seal of appropriate size to be installed. It isn't all that complicated a process, and Dan H. has a whole machine shop up there in Pennsylvania with about four feet of snow in the parking lot. Send it to him. He hasn't got anything else to do, anyway-----Right, Dan?
> >
> > I'm looking forward to seeing this critter. Couldn't find you on the moki pages, so maybe they haven't posted it yet. I'll keep an eye out. At present, I've got half a dozen Spanish speaking roofers banging away at my new shingles, so that's keeping me busy.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Vance
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
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