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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] hydrogen considerations and oil/air pressure equalization. Bill Akins.



Hi Brian.
 
Although oil is an alternative to air equalization of a battery pod or motor, in my opinion it has its disadvantages. True...since oil does not compress or expand like air (except from heat), you do not have to have a system that constantly monitors your pressure
and injects more oil to compensate for outside water pressure. But oil is messy. Hard to get all the air voids out of your motor unless you put the oil in under a slight vacuum and use bleeder screws (like in a car's brake system).
 
You do not want to completely cover your batteries with oil and this still leaves a substantial air void in the battery pod that is not equalized. According to Minnkota using oil (some folks use transformer oil) can gum up the brushes on brush motors. 
Oil also slows down the rpm of your motor somewhat depending on what viscosity of oil you use, but no matter how thin the oil it does slow the rpm even if just slightly.
When your motor gets warm or hot the oil can expand and blow out your shaft seal unless you use an oil bladder bag or tube that attaches to the motor and allows expanding oil from the heat in the motor to flow into the bag so you don't blow a seal, and also if you have any slight seepage leak of oil, the oil bladder if put under slight pressure will replace any lost oil and the slight positive pressure of the oil in the bladder will keep any water out.
 
 By attaching an oil filled bladder via a tube to the motor and allowing a section of the tube to hang BELOW the motor housing, you can utilize Pascal's law that dictates that any liquid that is within a closed container (tube) and becomes pressurized at the lowest point of that container (tube) will impart that same pressure to the overall container, thus always keeping your oil in your motor housing just under a slight positive pressure since the tube hangs below the motor and is slightly pressurized more than the water pressure on the motor.
 
The oil itself is not compressed here, but it is pressurized. Think of a hot water bottle. Water/oil can not be compressed. If you open the hot water cap it will dribble out right? But if you open it and stomp on it the water will shoot out. It is not compressed but it is pressurized. Pascal's law applies here if you have an oil bladder or oil filled tube from that bladder hanging below your motor. But overall I think oil equalization is more trouble for me than it is worth. It might be more viable at greater depths where constant air supply for heavy equalization could be a consideration, but considering the depths I am going to be diving my wetsub at are normal scuba depths no greater than a max of 100 feet, I believe after much thought that the air equalization system is the one I will use.  
 
Some people like oil and others like air equalization. I think using an air tank and scuba regulator for motor and battery pod pressure equalization is far less messy and easier to do than using oil for my particular purposes.
 
As long as I use a hydrolator and hydrocaps from the Hydrocap Corporation which converts the hydrogen back into water in the batteries and the battery compartment itself, I should not have any problem with any sparks from the motor igniting hydrogen
with my battery pod and motor being joined via flexible conduit.
 
If you contact the hydrocap corporation ask for Mr. George Peroni.
 
Here is a brief description of what hydrocaps do....
 
WE MAKE WATER FROM YOUR GAS
Hydrogen and oxygen battery gas catalytically recombined into purewater and returned to each battery cell. Keeps battery topped off for extended periods of time and reduces maintenance costs. Explosive hydrogen gas is virtually eliminated from the battery area. Corrosive spray and fumes are contained and washed back into each battery cell. Electrolyte kept strong longer, extending the useful power and life of the battery. HYDROCAP Vents simply replace the battery?s caps. Battery maintenance is greatly reduced. Write or call for more information.305-696-2504  975 NW 95 St.Miami, FL 33150
 
 
Kindest Regards,
Bill Akins.
 
 
 
  

Is flooding with oil not and option for you?

Brian
----- Original Message -----
From: <SFreihof@aol.com>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wetsub carrier water transport systems


> I would think inline one-way check valves could isolate the components so no hydrogen rich air from the batteries can enter the motor housings.  Perhaps you could use one supply line with the batteries check-valved and downstream from the motor, but I think two separate check-valved ambient supply lines would be best to isolate the components.  The downside is that check valves will create some pressure drop in the ambient supply line, so pressurization will lag behind by a few psi during descent.  Or so I suppose...
>
> Stan
>
>
> In a message dated 1/25/2005 3:09:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Akins" <lakins1@tampabay.rr.com> writes:
>
> >It could possibly be if I were not going to use hydrolators and hydrocaps which absorb any hydrogen and convert it into water.
> >Plus although there are trace amounts of hydrogen made during discharge, most ot the hydrogen is made when you charge and
> >I will be using the forced air while charging and not running the motor at that time as well. But good thinking though Vance.
> >Those hydrolators and hydrocaps had BETTER work. Lol. Nobody ever says subs are safe. Even just scuba diving isn't safe.
> >Heck, living isn't safe, it means you're going to die. Lol. But I will do my best to make it as safe as POSSIBLE.
> >
> >I guess it would be possible to seperate them. By NOT equalizing the pod and plugging the ends of the tubes that carry the wires from
> >the pod to the motor, and then carefully epoxying each end of each and every single wire to insure there was an airtight seal between the
> >wire's insulation and the wire strands so to preclude any air or hydrogen leakage thru the strands. I could crimp fittings onto the end of the wires
> >and then carefully expoxy over the insulation and the strands leaving only the round connector fitting not epoxied and insuring there was no missed
> >spots where air could leak thru the strand. I probably could do that and will further consider it. But for now unless I change my mind I am
> >banking on the hydrolator and hydrocaps. But again good thinking Vance. Keep helping me ok? I can use all I can get.
> >
> >
> >Kindest Regards,
> >Bill Akins.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ron
> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:14 AM
> > Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Wetsub carrier water transport systems
> >
> >
> > Isn't having your motor and battery in the same air comp loop an invitation for a hydrogen gas explosion?