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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Close cycle gasoline engines
The result of all this experiments in the late 30 and early
40ies in germany was : a unmmaned remote controlled machinery space.
But the drive itself runs..
Maybe difficult in a one or twoman sub..
The CCD Drive is not deep undependable.. You need a
washer and a compressor for the CO2 - more dive depth - more compressore
energie required. Okay - you can wash the CO2 with chemical out.. but
this need a huge amount of "lauge".
The last experiment was the Bruker Seahorse KHD in the 80ies.
To complex to get really commercial operational.
Fuelcells looks better - U 212 class shows the way- look with one
eye for the new cars.. :-)
Carsten
Ian Roxborough schrieb:
>
> Hi,
>
> I've seen this come up a few times, there is even a
> white paper which talks about it on the psubs web site:
>
> http://www.psubs.org/designguide/waip.html
>
> Also searching the mailing list archives for
> "closed cycle" or "AIP" would probably point you to
> some previous discussions of this topic.
>
> I'm not speaking for everybody, but the general
> consensus seemed to be leaning towards the "it's
> too dangerous". I got the feeling that this was
> mainly because with too much oxygen anything can get
> *REALLY* explosive. Not too forget, that fire is a
> real bad enemy to have on board a submarine (more
> so if it is under the water at the time).
>
> Gasoline has it's own hazards for marine vessels
> and submarines. Mainly it's vapourises easily
> and the vapour is heavier than air, so it will pool
> in the bottom of your submarine and wait for a spark
> or flame to ignite it.
>
> Saying that, closed cycle diesel are being used by
> universities on unmanned autonimous submarines. Also
> a company called Kockums is making a closed cycle
> stirling engine for military submarine.
> http://www.kockums.se/Submarines/aipstirling.html
>
> Maybe there is some future in AIP for personal subs,
> if somebody discovers a safe chemical heat source that
> doesn't have a danger of exploding, which could be
> hooked up to a stirling engine.
>
> Ian.
>
> On Sun, 25 Aug 2002 15:21:38 EDT
> ToolRoomTrustee@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Have any of you looked at the work done in Germany in 30s to
> > run gasoline and diesel engines underwater in what is called a
> > closed cycle? Rossler's THE U-boat was published in English
> > by US Naval Institute Press in early 80s. FWIW Aberdeen, WA
> > branch of Timberline Regional Library had a copy last time I looked
> > and ought to be available on InterLibrary Loan.
> > Anyway on page 144 in middle column (of 3) near bottom is mentioned
> > some experiments done in Germany starting in late 20s into early 30s.
> > The head of the project, a Dr. Kauffman was forced out of Germany
> > by the NAZIs The basic concept was that the exhaust gasses would
> > be recycled and some additional oxygen was added, kinda like
> > an engine rebreather. Apparently later research developed engines,
> > mufflers and mountings that kept noise level down. This might be
> > a suitable drive for a personal sub. Perhaps with a snorkel capability
> > for runs on the surface (to keep intake above waves) and just below
> > surface. I could see such an arrangement with engine surrounded by
> > CO2 so a fire would be unlikely. Probably be good to have the engine
> > and fuel compartment completely separate from crew compartment.
> > A lot of the crew on German miniature subs died from CO poisoning.
> >
> > Another aspect to consider is fuel. I recall reading that some Zeppelins
> > didn't use gasoline as a fuel but some kind of synthetic gas that was stored
> > in the balloons. Possibley something like that might work. Or maybe
> > MAPP gas.
> >
> > Larry Murray
> >
>
> --
> The moon ate the sun on Monday and it was an awsome sight to see.