Re: Federal Regulations Governing PSUBS

[shawl@torchlake.com (Jonathan Shawl)]

Thanks Doug for the information!
It is what I have been looking for. It seems that many local officials don't know
about these regulations. I have found that if your sub has a Registration # on it
the curious marine police don't ask so many questions. I had my sub in a parade in
my local town (no numbers on sub), during it a friend of mine overheard a local
marine officer comment to someone,  "if I caught him on the lake with that thing
and it didn't have numbers on it I will nail his a$$ " or something close to that.

I guess it looks more official to them with numbers on it. My State told me that
if I was running it on the surface under it's own power then it is a boat, and has
to be registered. If it is only used below the surface then it is a dive tool, or
something like that. I don't want to start a political debate, but we have already
loss too many freedoms that we should still have.
I think some regulation is OK for something's, but I don't want anyone telling me
that I have to pay for permission to use my Psub. It's just the way I feel about
it. We have many rights that we sign away when we get a license to do most
anything. When in many cases we had the right to do that something without being
licensed in the first place. We get hoodwinked into signing many things because we
are made to believe we have to. I think government gets too carried away with
costly regulations in the name of safety, when in fact it is a big money game.
Again I say, I don't want to start a political debate, I was just expressing my
opinion and experiences.
Jon Shawl

SeaLordOne@aol.com wrote:

> Fellow Builders,
>
> Several recent postings have suggested to me that some of our members may
> desire to add some government documents to their libraries.  One chap asked
> what his state would require for registration, while another referenced a
> House Bill dating back to 1968.  Nor do I remember references to these
> documents in the PSUBS archives.  I would recommend these:
>
> Guidance for Certification of Passenger Carrying Submersibles, NVIC
> (Navigation and Vessel Inspection Circular) No. 5-93 (65 pages).
>
> www.uscg.mil/hq/g%2Dm/nvic/5%5F93/n5%2D93.htm
>
> Marine Safety Manual, Volume 2, Chapter 36, Submersible Vessels and
> Undocumented Vessels (3 pages).
>
> www.uscg.mil/hq/g%2Dm/nmc/pubs/msm/v2/c36.htm
>
> If you call up the Coast Guard website, you can use the search feature on the
> home page to locate other useful publications: www.uscg.mil
>
> NVIC 5-93 is the document that governs our existence as "backyard builders" of
> "recreational submersibles" (to use Coast Guard terms).  It authorizes us to
> operate uncertified and uninspected submersibles in U.S. waters (provided we
> meet the criteria incuded in this and other referenced federal regulations).
> It is also the document that will withdraw that authorization from us if too
> many of us hurt/kill ourselves/others.  I check the site once a year for an
> update, just to make sure I am still legal.
>
> It is my understanding (based on second hand information) that the cost of
> certification far exceeds the cost of construction for the average "backyard
> builder".  IMHO, therefore, the de facto mission of PSUBS is in fact to
> support the building and operating of (safe but) uncertified and uninspected
> submersibles.  That makes NVIC 5-93 our "license" to do what we do.  It also
> gives us our rights to do what we do, should they be challenged by an
> uninformed local authority.  A personal example:
>
> When I approached the State of Florida in 1972 to register my home-built,
> 16-foot wet sub, the "Undaunted", the lady behind the counter had no idea what
> to do with a submarine.  But because my boat was made of fiberglassed marine
> plywood, and had motors, pumps and batteries, they decided I required a fire
> extinguisher.  I had no desire to dive with a bottle of compressed chemicals
> in my tiny hull, nor did I see the need for a fire extinguisher in a wet sub.
> But I had no recourse.  If I had had a copy of NVIC 5-93 and the Safe Boating
> Code, (or even know about them) I could made a strong case for my position.
>
> I want to thank Ray for making this forum possible, and all the PSUBers for
> making this site so damn fascinating.  I love it!  After 30 years of "backyard
> building", I have finally found a home.
>
> Doug Farrow