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Thanks David,
I agree with that entirely.
You are all a great bunch of people & I
appreciate the healthy debate & helpful input over the last
year.
Thanks Jon for all the unseen work running this site
& making it possible.
Regards Alan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 8:08
AM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
To all:
First of all I would like
to thank Hugh for the kind words regarding me in the previous posting. I
would like to set the record straight and perhaps in so doing give a roadmap
that we all could use to see many of our desired items we dream of
actually come to life...
I am no super technician or
great math wizard. I hold no higher education diplomas either. The key to my
success can be summed up in single word...community. Allow me to
explain...
In the beginning of my involvement with this
club I saw a need for passive hydrophones for use with these small submarines.
After having built one from a document on dipping hydrophones I was so
impressed with what I could hear that I sent an example to the 2007 psub
convention. It was looked over and it was commented on that it would probably
not work very deep. I sent a working example to Steven Pearce in Brisbane
Australia where he placed it in a compression chamber with a sight glass. It
did indeed fail at 19 psi or 30 fsw. The "o" ring reduced in overall diameter
until it was smaller than the piezo it was intended to protect and the seal
failed at this point. Many other designs were worked on and tested. Jay
Jeffries sent one down on a fishing line into the Tongue Of The Ocean (TOTO)
to 1273 feet and the air resonance chamber was still dry. The use of easily
available PVC plastics for hydrophone construction I had not considered
until suggested by Jon. Many people were involved in this simple idea
and rendered assistance in time by testing or by simply commenting
on the end testing results...
The point being that many people were
involved working towards a single goal. A community. Each of us possess a
small piece of a much larger picture on every subject. It is only when a
community of people working together and adding all these small pieces
together that the entire picture can come together.
Another point is that most of what is desired has been done before just not on
a small scale or budget... Being able to navigate by the depth of water for
example. There are depth charts on most areas accessible to these small
submarines. If not in the are of particular interest...we can make one of
our own. These depths are referenced to the surface...our subs are not
surface vessels and operate such that the depth of the vessel must be added to
fathometer readings so as to reference such a chart. This is still doable with
enough research. The psub air chiller is another example of something already
in existence. I took this idea and modified it to work better for our
application.
Directional passive sonar listening...I had
an idea called a comparative sonar in which two hydrophones placed side by
side could be compared to derive at the best bearing to a detected sonar
contact. I brought my idea out in the open to people I thought could best help
and it was then Jens Laland told me of the binaural sonar's used in WW1.
Seeing that this system held more merit than the one I was pursuing, I
abandoned this comparative system and with the aid of Jens made this binaural
system actually work.
Had I gone on with no assistance I may
have discovered binaural listening on my own but most likely I would have
simply given up altogether from frustration.
If a project
were being attempted and the end goal could be simply stated, those that wish
to assist could step forward and make themselves available. No matter how you
slice it, leaders come to light in such circumstances and these are the ones
that direct the project and the individuals involved. submit to this authority
and render any assistance you can.
When testing is performed, it is
vital that all information including shortfalls or undesired results be shared
fully. It is only in this way that glitches can best be solved. The word I
would use here is honesty. Over exaggerating the performance of any system
will only be brought to light when others attempt to duplicate the results
later on. Again be honest.
This was long winded but the
shortened version would be that no awesome system was ever developed alone or
at least not in a timely manner. We need community projects drawing from the
knowledge of many individuals to actually get anywhere. We all benefit from
the end products when done in this way.
David Bartsch
From: hc.fulton@gmail.com
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject:
RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] x prize goes ocean
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 08:55:23
+1300
If
only we could achieve what you say Vance. I think the most we will get
to is to be similar to the aviation industry where people have a number of 2,
4 and six seater aircraft that they use for recreation and sight seeing.
However there are many people who are terrified of going in a small vessel
under the water. More so than in small aircraft. I was amazed when I had
the Comsub exhibited at a boatshow that so many guys passed the comment that
“You wouldn’t catch me in that thing”. You need good visibility like flying
and some instrument rated pilots for the murky waters. Graham Hawkes “flying”
sub is one to inspire the populace but impossible to get out of without the
freeboard in a small chop and poor bottom viewing. Bus tours are
impersonal, I think that something similar to Nuytco’s new 5 seater or Emile
and Carstens new creations are the answer. ROV’s are like artificial
insemination or X-box. Requires a lot of skill, fun to do but where is
the excitement. We need subs that are independent of surface boats and
with good nav systems. Commercially very difficult to get that cost down
and to make it pay on a tourism basis. We need the innovative low cost answers
that will come from the David Bartsch’s of the world. I am a believer in
the twin propulsion systems of diesel / electric to enable battery recharging
and surface range. However you cannot get all that on a trailer easily.
Enough rambling but I am sure that day will come when we see the increase in
small subs. Hugh
From:
owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of
vbra676539@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, 28 December 2010 4:35
a.m.
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] x prize goes ocean
You are probably
right, sadly. The new crop of engineering and science students are flooded
with junk and noise about the use of digital and remote systems, with a deep
paucity of realtime, hands-on science. We have entered an information
gathering phase that deals in terabytes of data to be used for statistical
analysis. All good stuff, undeniably. The sad part is that all too many of
these young minds have come to believe that remote data gathering and computer
driven number crunching is more valuable than the adventure of going, doing
and seeing.
At some stage, the sea
will call them back. But they will have to learn it all over again. Bean
counters are key players in the ocean business, but that doesn't mean
people-in-the-sea is passe. Sliding an AUV over the stern and having it do its
job and return successfully is a big challenge. But it ain't nearly the fun
that going and doing it yourself. When the salinity and temperature and ph and
current and turbidity measurements are taken, and the mapping is done, then
maybe it will be time to reenter the fray, so to speak.
THEN we'll need the
fleets of small subs. Or exo-suits, or whatever.
Vance
-----Original
Message-----
From: Daniel Kubiak <dkubiak@hotmail.com>
To:
personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Mon,
Dec 27, 2010 5:24 am
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] x prize goes
ocean
Who
would go in the fleets of manned submersible vehicles that map the ocean
floor or take copious temperature and salinity measurements? Surface
ships are readily available, but is the ocean surface covered with them?
I suspect this prize will encourage the development of robotics that can
complete a lot of general mapping and measurements - maybe beefed up
ocean gliders.
To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject:
Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] x prize goes ocean
From: vbra676539@aol.com
Date: Sun, 26 Dec
2010 14:41:31 -0500
How about items #1 and
#2? Improvement of technology to further ocean exploration. How about readily
available, certifiable, reasonably priced and simple manned submersible
vehicles.....lots of them.....fleets of them. It's time to get man back in the
sea. Not robots.
-----Original
Message-----
From: Emile van Essen <emile@airesearch.nl>
To:
personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent:
Sun, Dec 26, 2010 9:03 am
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] x prize goes
ocean
X
price foundation ask for ideas for an ocean related x-price
http://www.xprize.org/future-x-prizes/exploration
I
have some nice ideas. And you??
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