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To all: First of all I would like to thank Hugh for the kind words regarding me in the previous posting. I would like to set the record straight and perhaps in so doing give a roadmap that we all could use to see many of our desired items we dream of actually come to life... I am no super technician or great math wizard. I hold no higher education diplomas either. The key to my success can be summed up in single word...community. Allow me to explain... In the beginning of my involvement with this club I saw a need for passive hydrophones for use with these small submarines. After having built one from a document on dipping hydrophones I was so impressed with what I could hear that I sent an example to the 2007 psub convention. It was looked over and it was commented on that it would probably not work very deep. I sent a working example to Steven Pearce in Brisbane Australia where he placed it in a compression chamber with a sight glass. It did indeed fail at 19 psi or 30 fsw. The "o" ring reduced in overall diameter until it was smaller than the piezo it was intended to protect and the seal failed at this point. Many other designs were worked on and tested. Jay Jeffries sent one down on a fishing line into the Tongue Of The Ocean (TOTO) to 1273 feet and the air resonance chamber was still dry. The use of easily available PVC plastics for hydrophone construction I had not considered until suggested by Jon. Many people were involved in this simple idea and rendered assistance in time by testing or by simply commenting on the end testing results... The point being that many people were involved working towards a single goal. A community. Each of us possess a small piece of a much larger picture on every subject. It is only when a community of people working together and adding all these small pieces together that the entire picture can come together. Another point is that most of what is desired has been done before just not on a small scale or budget... Being able to navigate by the depth of water for example. There are depth charts on most areas accessible to these small submarines. If not in the are of particular interest...we can make one of our own. These depths are referenced to the surface...our subs are not surface vessels and operate such that the depth of the vessel must be added to fathometer readings so as to reference such a chart. This is still doable with enough research. The psub air chiller is another example of something already in existence. I took this idea and modified it to work better for our application. Directional passive sonar listening...I had an idea called a comparative sonar in which two hydrophones placed side by side could be compared to derive at the best bearing to a detected sonar contact. I brought my idea out in the open to people I thought could best help and it was then Jens Laland told me of the binaural sonar's used in WW1. Seeing that this system held more merit than the one I was pursuing, I abandoned this comparative system and with the aid of Jens made this binaural system actually work. Had I gone on with no assistance I may have discovered binaural listening on my own but most likely I would have simply given up altogether from frustration. If a project were being attempted and the end goal could be simply stated, those that wish to assist could step forward and make themselves available. No matter how you slice it, leaders come to light in such circumstances and these are the ones that direct the project and the individuals involved. submit to this authority and render any assistance you can. When testing is performed, it is vital that all information including shortfalls or undesired results be shared fully. It is only in this way that glitches can best be solved. The word I would use here is honesty. Over exaggerating the performance of any system will only be brought to light when others attempt to duplicate the results later on. Again be honest. This was long winded but the shortened version would be that no awesome system was ever developed alone or at least not in a timely manner. We need community projects drawing from the knowledge of many individuals to actually get anywhere. We all benefit from the end products when done in this way. David Bartsch From: hc.fulton@gmail.com To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] x prize goes ocean Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 08:55:23 +1300 If only we could achieve what you say Vance. I think the most we will get to is to be similar to the aviation industry where people have a number of 2, 4 and six seater aircraft that they use for recreation and sight seeing. However there are many people who are terrified of going in a small vessel under the water. More so than in small aircraft. I was amazed when I had the Comsub exhibited at a boatshow that so many guys passed the comment that “You wouldn’t catch me in that thing”. You need good visibility like flying and some instrument rated pilots for the murky waters. Graham Hawkes “flying” sub is one to inspire the populace but impossible to get out of without the freeboard in a small chop and poor bottom viewing. Bus tours are impersonal, I think that something similar to Nuytco’s new 5 seater or Emile and Carstens new creations are the answer. ROV’s are like artificial insemination or X-box. Requires a lot of skill, fun to do but where is the excitement. We need subs that are independent of surface boats and with good nav systems. Commercially very difficult to get that cost down and to make it pay on a tourism basis. We need the innovative low cost answers that will come from the David Bartsch’s of the world. I am a believer in the twin propulsion systems of diesel / electric to enable battery recharging and surface range. However you cannot get all that on a trailer easily. Enough rambling but I am sure that day will come when we see the increase in small subs. Hugh
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of vbra676539@aol.com
You are probably right, sadly. The new crop of engineering and science students are flooded with junk and noise about the use of digital and remote systems, with a deep paucity of realtime, hands-on science. We have entered an information gathering phase that deals in terabytes of data to be used for statistical analysis. All good stuff, undeniably. The sad part is that all too many of these young minds have come to believe that remote data gathering and computer driven number crunching is more valuable than the adventure of going, doing and seeing.
At some stage, the sea will call them back. But they will have to learn it all over again. Bean counters are key players in the ocean business, but that doesn't mean people-in-the-sea is passe. Sliding an AUV over the stern and having it do its job and return successfully is a big challenge. But it ain't nearly the fun that going and doing it yourself. When the salinity and temperature and ph and current and turbidity measurements are taken, and the mapping is done, then maybe it will be time to reenter the fray, so to speak.
THEN we'll need the fleets of small subs. Or exo-suits, or whatever.
Vance
-----Original Message----- Who would go in the fleets of manned submersible vehicles that map the ocean floor or take copious temperature and salinity measurements? Surface ships are readily available, but is the ocean surface covered with them? I suspect this prize will encourage the development of robotics that can complete a lot of general mapping and measurements - maybe beefed up ocean gliders. To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
-----Original Message----- X price foundation ask for ideas for an ocean related x-price
http://www.xprize.org/future-x-prizes/exploration
I have some nice ideas. And you??
Regards, Emile
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