[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Engine intake and exhaust-Carsten?
Thanks Carsten, Do you have a link to this commercial valve available for
sale? They are used on large ships?
Not sure how it works from your discription, I would probably have to see
it. It sounds like a good solution however.
Thanks again,
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]On Behalf Of
MerlinSub@t-online.de
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 1:56 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Engine intake and exhaust-Carsten?
Hi
www.euronaut.org/content/gfx/equipment/0.jpg
www.euronaut.org/content/gfx/equipment/5.jpg
www.euronaut.org/content/gfx/equipment/6.jpg
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkVdmv0w3S0
www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT7i05s92ak&feature=related
Its a conus flap on a exenter.
Seals are two rings from graphite in the conus face.
Hand or/and electric driven. With a indicator of the position.
If you turn the flap 90 degree - the conus turns his face into seat
direction
and during the rotation the exenter-axis press it into the seat.
Clever design.
I pressurise it during at test with water to 42 bars (equal to 1400feet
depth)
without problems. Its design for hot exhaust system like mine.
I don't like seawater pipes in my boat so I go for a hot system.
Insulate stainless steel pipes.
Flap it's 5 inch in diameter and available for
underwater exhaust sytsem of bigger commercial boats.
vbr regards Carsten
"Never build something yourself if you can purchase it cheap.."
"Antoine Delafargue" <antoine.delafargue@gmail.com> schrieb:
> Hello all,
> I have been wondering about this issue too. I don t know what Carsten uses
> on his sub, but here is what I found on the web:
> If you go for a 'dry' exhaust where there is no cooling water injected at
> the exhaust manifold of the engine, then the gases will be way too hot
(450+
> degrees celsius) for the typical elastomer seals located in isolation
> valves. The inside of the sub would be hot and noisy too.
> If you go for a 'wet' exhaust with cooling water injected in the exhaust
> manifold, you d have a sea water loop to look after (which I think Carsten
> does not have any of in his boat) but the temperature at the isolation
valve
> of the exhaust should be lower, in the range of 80-90 degrees celsius
(still
> high enough to wonder about thermal stress and fatigue issues).
> The other thing is that the exhaust including the isolation valve on the
> hull need to be of a large diameter (1-2" ?) to prevent a raise of back
> pressure at the outlet of the engine, detrimental to its life and
> performance.
>
> regards
> Antoine
>
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 12:38 AM, Brian Cox <
> ojaivalleybeefarm@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Frank, Just a few thoughts, I was thinking that if I made downward
U
> > turns at the end of the pipes and then put a valve there, I wouldn't
have to
> > worry about draining any water since it could not get in. Except for
the
> > point you made about condensation. On the diesel lines, maybe a fuel
> > bladder so no water vapor would be present. I like your idea using the
> > outboard and I think that is a good approach - except I want more power
> > !! I was going to put a stack fairly high up in the air to get away
from
> > any splash. The cooling system, the lines would not need to be locked
> > out, as they would not be open the outside pressure, although it would
be
> > easy enough to do.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > *From:* owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:
> > owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]*On Behalf Of *shellydalg@aol.com
> > *Sent:* Saturday, December 19, 2009 4:10 PM
> > *To:* personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Engine intake and exhaust-Carsten?
> >
> > In a message dated 12/19/2009 2:34:25 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > ojaivalleybeefarm@dslextreme.com writes:
> >
> > Hi All,
> > I'm looking into schemes to handle the intake and exhaust
> >
> > Hi Brian. Not expert advice but just a couple thoughts.
> > I think I remember hearing about a double valve system on the
application.
> > There was a poppet valve to prevent "splash" from getting sucked into
the
> > intake side, and it makes sense to have a similar set-up on the exhaust.
> > There was a hard "gate" valve for actual diving to lock out the pipes
much
> > like any other hull penetration.
> > These valves were coupled with a "drain" bypass to dump any water that
gets
> > in there before starting up the motor. Maybe like a water trap on a
> > compressed air system in a shop.
> > Depending on how deep you go, the intake and exhaust "pipes" need to be
> > sufficiently thick to withstand the pressure.
> > The water cooling system also has a set of valves to "lock-out" the
system
> > when submerging.
> > If the fuel system is diesel then you need a means of evacuating water
from
> > the lines, as the environment will be conducive to condensation with the
> > heating and cooling cycles experienced between surface ops and submerged
> > ops. Big temperature changes there.
> > A diesel motor vibrates and the vibration would need to be isolated from
> > the hard piped thru-hulls.
> > On the exhaust side, the temperature changes from a "long run time" to
> > "shut off and submerging" will make the exhaust pipe exposed to salt
water
> > corrode fairly quickly. The exposed parts will need to be designed for
> > replacement when they get corroded. Even if it's stainless, the many
cycles
> > from hot to cold will reduce the anti-corrosion properties of the metal.
> > Bolt-up stuff so it can be replaced without using a torch and welder.
> > The valves on the exhaust side will need to have seats and seals that
can
> > take the many heat cycles.
> > It's fairly complicated but should be do-able.
> > On my little boat, I'm going with an outboard motor that will be mounted
> > and un-mounted so no extra thru-hulls are needed. The steering is
controlled
> > by the same actuator that controls the submerged steering rudders.
Throttle
> > will be another simple actuator or maybe just a quick disconnect cable
> > running through a small ( 3/8 inch ) thru-hull with a ball valve.
> > The outboard is small enough to fit through the hatch, and the fuel tank
(
> > gasoline ) will be small too.
> > A 20 horse Mercury outboard looks to just fit, and is light enough to
pick
> > up easily.
> > Typically the outboard will not be carried inside the sub but I want it
to
> > fit just in case. I expect to always have a surface boat with me, unless
> > it's just playing around in a lake for the day. The outboard would be
> > un-mounted from the sub and placed in the surface boat when diving.
> > I've often thought about how to add a diesel powered "module" to my sub
> > that would be more or less self contained in it's own pressure vessel
but
> > connected by a couple of electrical thru-hulls for engine controls and
> > system monitoring. In the current design it would be basically a
pressure
> > vessel split in half with mating flanges, hard valves on
> > intake/exhaust/cooling water, and the prop would be on a magnetic
coupler.
> > Of course, being the dreamer that I am, the concept quickly evolved into
a
> > pressure cabin, fuel tanks, gen set, extra battery banks, bunks, galley,
and
> > head stretching the thing to 24 feet long !
> > I think I showed you the concept sketch once when you visited.
> > Anyway, good luck with the diesel and keep us informed as the design
> > progresses. It sounds very interesting.
> > Frank D.
> >
> >
>
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database
because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
from our organization.
If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
link below or send a blank email message to:
removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
our server receiving your request.
PSUBS.ORG
PO Box 53
Weare, NH 03281
603-529-1100
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database
because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
from our organization.
If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
link below or send a blank email message to:
removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
our server receiving your request.
PSUBS.ORG
PO Box 53
Weare, NH 03281
603-529-1100
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************