Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Engine intake and exhaust-Carsten?

[MerlinSub@t-online.de]

Hi 

www.euronaut.org/content/gfx/equipment/0.jpg

www.euronaut.org/content/gfx/equipment/5.jpg

www.euronaut.org/content/gfx/equipment/6.jpg

www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkVdmv0w3S0

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT7i05s92ak&feature=related

Its a conus flap on a exenter. 
Seals are two rings from graphite in the conus face.
Hand or/and electric driven. With a indicator of the position. 

If you turn the flap 90 degree - the conus turns his face into seat direction
and during the rotation the exenter-axis press it into the seat. 
Clever design. 

I pressurise it during at test with water to 42 bars (equal to 1400feet depth)
without problems. Its design for hot exhaust system like mine. 
I don't like seawater pipes in my boat so I go for a hot system.
Insulate stainless steel pipes. 

Flap it's 5 inch in diameter and available for 
underwater exhaust sytsem of bigger commercial boats. 

vbr regards Carsten 

"Never build something yourself if you can purchase it cheap.."






"Antoine Delafargue" <antoine.delafargue@gmail.com> schrieb:
> Hello all,
> I have been wondering about this issue too. I don t know what Carsten uses
> on his sub, but here is what I found on the web:
> If you go for a 'dry' exhaust where there is no cooling water injected at
> the exhaust manifold of the engine, then the gases will be way too hot (450+
> degrees celsius) for the typical elastomer seals located in isolation
> valves. The inside of the sub would be hot and noisy too.
> If you go for a 'wet' exhaust with cooling water injected in the exhaust
> manifold, you d have a sea water loop to look after (which I think Carsten
> does not have any of in his boat) but the temperature at the isolation valve
> of the exhaust should be lower, in the range of 80-90 degrees celsius (still
> high enough to wonder about thermal stress and fatigue issues).
> The other thing is that the exhaust including the isolation valve on the
> hull need to be of a large diameter (1-2" ?) to prevent a raise of back
> pressure at the outlet of the engine, detrimental to its life and
> performance.
> 
> regards
> Antoine
> 
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 12:38 AM, Brian Cox <
> ojaivalleybeefarm@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> 
> >  Hi Frank,  Just a few thoughts,  I was thinking that if I made downward U
> > turns at the end of the pipes and then put a valve there, I wouldn't have to
> > worry about draining any water since it could not get in.  Except for the
> > point you made about condensation.  On the diesel lines, maybe a fuel
> > bladder so no water vapor would be present.  I like your idea using the
> > outboard and I think that is a good approach - except I want more power
> > !!    I was going to put a stack fairly high up in the air to get away from
> > any splash.  The cooling system, the lines would not need to be locked
> > out, as they would not be open the outside pressure, although it would be
> > easy enough to do.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> >  -----Original Message-----
> > *From:* owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:
> > owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]*On Behalf Of *shellydalg@aol.com
> > *Sent:* Saturday, December 19, 2009 4:10 PM
> > *To:* personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Engine intake and exhaust-Carsten?
> >
> >  In a message dated 12/19/2009 2:34:25 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> > ojaivalleybeefarm@dslextreme.com writes:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >           I'm looking into schemes to handle the intake and exhaust
> >
> >  Hi Brian. Not expert advice but just a couple thoughts.
> > I think I remember hearing about a double valve system on the application.
> > There was a poppet valve to prevent "splash" from getting sucked into the
> > intake side, and it makes sense to have a similar set-up on the exhaust.
> > There was a hard "gate" valve for actual diving to lock out the pipes much
> > like any other hull penetration.
> > These valves were coupled with a "drain" bypass to dump any water that gets
> > in there before starting up the motor. Maybe like a water trap on a
> > compressed air system in a shop.
> > Depending on how deep you go, the intake and exhaust "pipes" need to be
> > sufficiently thick to withstand the pressure.
> > The water cooling system also has a set of valves to "lock-out" the system
> > when submerging.
> > If the fuel system is diesel then you need a means of evacuating water from
> > the lines, as the environment will be conducive to condensation with the
> > heating and cooling cycles experienced between surface ops and submerged
> > ops. Big temperature changes there.
> > A diesel motor vibrates and the vibration would need to be isolated from
> > the hard piped thru-hulls.
> > On the exhaust side, the temperature changes from a "long run time" to
> > "shut off and submerging" will make the exhaust pipe exposed to salt water
> > corrode fairly quickly. The exposed parts will need to be designed for
> > replacement when they get corroded. Even if it's stainless, the many cycles
> > from hot to cold will reduce the anti-corrosion properties of the metal.
> > Bolt-up stuff so it can be replaced without using a torch and welder.
> > The valves on the exhaust side will need to have seats and seals that can
> > take the many heat cycles.
> > It's fairly complicated but should be do-able.
> > On my little boat, I'm going with an outboard motor that will be mounted
> > and un-mounted so no extra thru-hulls are needed. The steering is controlled
> > by the same actuator that controls the submerged steering rudders. Throttle
> > will be another simple actuator or maybe just a quick disconnect cable
> > running through a small ( 3/8 inch ) thru-hull with a ball valve.
> > The outboard is small enough to fit through the hatch, and the fuel tank (
> > gasoline ) will be small too.
> > A 20 horse Mercury outboard looks to just fit, and is light enough to pick
> > up easily.
> > Typically the outboard will not be carried inside the sub but I want it to
> > fit just in case. I expect to always have a surface boat with me, unless
> > it's just playing around in a lake for the day. The outboard would be
> > un-mounted from the sub and placed in the surface boat when diving.
> > I've often thought about how to add a diesel powered "module" to my sub
> > that would be more or less self contained in it's own pressure vessel but
> > connected by a couple of electrical thru-hulls for engine controls and
> > system monitoring. In the current design it would be basically a pressure
> > vessel split in half with mating flanges, hard valves on
> > intake/exhaust/cooling water,  and the prop would be on a magnetic coupler.
> > Of course, being the dreamer that I am, the concept quickly evolved into a
> > pressure cabin, fuel tanks, gen set, extra battery banks, bunks, galley, and
> > head stretching the thing to 24 feet long !
> > I think I showed you the concept sketch once when you visited.
> > Anyway, good luck with the diesel and keep us informed as the design
> > progresses. It sounds very interesting.
> > Frank D.
> >
> >
> 




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