Dear Jon
Stephen Pearce asked me to post this on his behalf.
Regards
John
From: international_psubs_minisubs_rovs@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:international_psubs_minisubs_rovs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Pearce
Sent: Sunday, 25 October 2009 12:16 PM
To: international_psubs_minisubs_rovs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [international_psubs_minisubs_rovs] Relationship between
minisubs.org and psubs.org
Dear Members
Cc: John Wallace, Psubs.org
This morning I have had for the second time recieved a post from psubs.org that
is personally disappointing. It makes some assumptions about my motivation for
founding minisubs.org and the associated Yahoo Group Forum that are completely
incorrect and personally attacks one of our members.
To dispel any myths before they become assumptions of fact it has been implied
that Doug has an interest or is a founder of our group. This is completely
incorrect. I am the sole owner of the Yahoo Forum and the Domain Name
www.minisubs.org. I did not know Doug other than viewing his website and
sending a few emails before the foundation of the group. Doug has bent over
backwards to assist me and has become a personal friend in the process. Doug
operates his own website independent of minisubs.org. That said Doug like every
other member of our group is a valued member and contributor.
More concerning to me personally is the following statement made by Jon Wallace
on the 24th October stating "It appears the foundation and goal of your
group is based more upon vindictiveness and revenge rather than submersible
discussion." This to me is very disappointing but the upside is that it
gives me the opportunity to discuss with you all my motivations for starting
the group in the first instance.
First and foremost I set up the Yahoo group quickly as a way of providing an
immediate home for those Psubs members who had a continuing interest in Psubs
and Minisubs but were either personally not welcome or their ideas were not
conforming to that groups policies. To my surprise the group grew from 4 to 20
members in no time and in its first two months is approaching 40.
As far as the comment about the group "not" being about
"submersible discussion" well as some of you know the discussion has
been huge. We currently generate 7 posts to Psubs one, yes at a rate of 7:1. I
think this also illustrates what happens when people don't have to second guess
if their comment or opinion will be acceptable or not. I am personally pleased
with the discussion of Ambient boats and the involvement of Members like Jose
and Alan on this subject.
The next statement is even more disappointing from Jon, "We are also well
aware of the leaders in your group intention to stomp out PSUBS from the
internet as evidenced by a submission from Steve Pearce in which he said in
response to Alan James, on Sep 17, 2009, "My goal is that within three
months of launch our website will be at the top of the Google search engine
results when you type in Psub, minisub personal sub etc."
Well I make no apologies for this statement at all. I am personally investing
over 5K of my own funds into this project so of cause I want it to succeed. My
personal back ground is Marketing so I am going to do everything I can to
promote the group and recruit members.
The main difference between Psubs and Minisubs is that Minisubs is not setting
its self up as a lobby group or standards organization or will it be limiting
discussion on that basis. We are here to encourage open discussion and to
promote an interest in Private and to a point Commercial submarines available
to private individuals. The second major difference is that we support
discussion of non conforming subs (according to psubs.org)like that of Karl
Stanley who have been denigrated on Psubs by certain members. At Minisubs we
are here to celebrate the spirit of achievement like that of many people like
Karl Stanley, Peter Madsen, Cliff Redus, Carsten from Germany Anders from
Sweden, Jose, Doug who display this in backing themselves and their ideas.
Thirdly we are here to be a truly international group rather than a US K-boat
centric organization.
We are not here to be Big Brother!
There will never be any issue with members being associated with both groups!
In fact I would encourage it. We do after all have our founding roots in the
psubs.org group. I am also aware that we have been monitored by a particular
psubs.org member since week two for less than honorable purposes. I discussed
this with Brent at the time went we were making a decision to ban him or not.
We decided to have an open policy and try to let bygones be bygones.
What is interesting is that about 30% of our Yahoo group members have no
previous contact with psubs.org at all! We are to a degree pulling a substantial
membership from another pool altogether.
So to conclude, as the head of this group, I am happy to put aside my personal
disagreements with Jon and or certain Psubs members even if they are not. This
doesn't mean I will not on occasion make a comment about something I disagree
with. This group exists for the sole purpose of promoting open discussion, to
promote Minisubs and personal subs as a hobby, interest and or build project
internationally, and even more importantly provide good service to its members
and to view them as customers. We have a legitimacy and an absolute right to
exist even if some Psubs members see us as a threat to their existence or
status as the group representing personal submersible owners, as some of them
discussed at their Convention last month.
I see the different groups as Coke and Pepsi, I enjoy both.
Regards
Steve Pearce
Founder and Owner
minisubs.org and Yahoo Group "international_psubs_minisubs_rovs"
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