Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Continuing saga of homebrewed Chinese sub

[Jon Wallace <jonw@psubs.org>]

Joe,

I don't see geographical location defining such characterization. 

It is foolish to undertake experimentation with projects that endanger 
your life when you have no, or limited, knowledge about the subject.  
This is true regardless of geography or financial means, and especially 
true if your financial means are small.  People in poorer countries have 
been killed trying to tap electricity from power lines because they 
didn't understand the concept of "grounding" or the amount of electrical 
power they were dealing with.  Did that make them innovative or 
foolish?  In this case, Alan James made contact with someone who had 
access to the builder and was able to converse and translate Alan's 
questions about the builders submarine.  As Alan reported, the 
translator Christina Hu stated, "He has no idea of real statistics of 
how much pressure the submarine will take when in deep water." and the 
reporter, Reinhard Krause, whom Alan contacted stated that he had "a big 
concern when I met him."  It seems rather obvious that the concerns 
stated by the "arm chair critics" when this topic originally came up, 
were justified.  In fact the builder fabricated the submarine to get 
attention for a host of other "inventions" that he has not been able to 
find anyone to invest in.  I have not seen him state in any press 
release or interview that he wants anyone to invest in his submarine or 
help him build a business to produce submarines.  By his own admission, 
it is a gimmick.

I think your characterization of the Chinese fellow's efforts as 
"anemic" is well stated, but disagree with your supposition that his 
geographical location grants him an "A" for effort whereas someone 
elsewhere would be a fool.  I think rather than opportunity and 
availability, the issue is one of knowledge.  Anyone, anywhere, with the 
same limited knowledge as the Chinese fellow in regards to submarines 
might very well come up with the same resolution of using 55-gallon 
drums or similar material for a submarine regardless of their 
opportunity and availability to use better material.  Conversely, anyone 
with the knowledge most of us on this list have would not consider 
building a 1ATM sub out of 55-gallon drums if for no other reason than 
it not having any practical use.  If knowledge negates building a sub 
from 55-gallon drums because it has no practical value, then a person is 
not a fool based upon their ignorance of submarines, but is foolish for 
delving into something that they have limited knowledge about.

You wondered what the Chinese fellow might do with our same level of 
opportunity and material availability, which I assume also includes our 
level of knowledge on the topic.  My guess is that he would not build a 
55-gallon submarine of the same design.

Of course there is another interpretation of your comments that I could 
agree with, which is; he had the concept right, but a really bad design 
that shouldn't be followed.  As I have stated before, I think that if we 
cannot separate "intent" from "form" we are not serving ourselves well.  
People with the best of intentions can come up with bad solutions and we 
have an obligation to cite it as such.  Calling a duck, a duck, doesn't 
equate to belittling it as a pigeon.

Jon



Joseph Perkel wrote:
> Hi Jay,
>  
> Just happened to pop in again on you guys. I must say that from what 
> I've seen from "my chair here" of the Vancouver meet, that it looks 
> like it was the PSUBS equivalent of landing on the moon! How are you 
> guys going to top that one?!
>  
> The one redeeming quality of the Chinese fellow's anemic efforts, is 
> that it is indicative of a much changed world. Give this guy an "A" 
> for his audacious spirit, and wonder what he might do with our level 
> of opportunity and material availability. Otherwise, if he were 
> located here in the good ole USA, I'd think him a fool.
>  
> Joe




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