Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub Operation at the Discretion of the U.S Coast Guard

[Jon Wallace <jonw@psubs.org>]

Correct on all three issues, Ian.

Brent, when you talk to commercial developers keep in mind that they are 
thinking in a commercial mindset and so anything they say is likely to 
be in a commercial context.  The second statement you cited by US 
Submarines regarding the Coast Guard and private subs operating in US 
waters is simply overly broad, and the same restrictions would apply to 
a Triton classed submersible.  The Coast Guard can certainly carry out 
their duties of policing and enforcement, especially as it applies to 
security.  However they cannot simply make up rules or act arbitrarily.  
There is no US federal law prohibiting the use of personal, non-classed 
submersibles, anywhere.  Asking you to provide a dive plan or minimally 
notify them that you are diving in the vicinity seems like a good 
practice to me.  Stopping you in the water because they suspect you 
might be a threat or acting in an illegal manner is no different then 
how they act for the same reasons to any other vessel on the water.  
However, they cannot enforce something like "Nah, you can't dive here 
because your sub is not ABS certified."  That kind of arbitrary 
enforcement would never survive a legal challenge (in the US) and I 
don't believe the Coast Guard is either that stupid or that arrogant to 
say such a thing.

Some time ago I did an exhaustive search of all US federal law 
pertaining to use of coastal and inland waters under federal 
jurisdiction.  Those are posted on the website.  Go to Resources & 
Reference and then look for Guidelines.  Those laws apply to PERSONAL 
use only.  If you charge money to a passenger, or even ask them to 
contribute to your operating costs (gas to get to the launch area), you 
are now operating under commercial rules and everything changes.  Now 
the Coast Guard owns you.  This is one reason why self-discipline and 
self-enforcement, through the formation and adherence to our own 
guidelines makes sense.  It shows we are proactive and don't need the 
government looking over our shoulders.

Regarding comments directed toward Uboat-Worx, I attribute those to 
competition and marketing.  At least one of Uboat-Worx products is a 
single seat vessel and from that perspective the comment about not being 
able to operate commercially is a red herring.  I suspect its pretty 
difficult to have a paying passenger when the only seat available is for 
the pilot.  You'll note when reading through the US federal law that 
"renting" a sub for private use is not considered "commercial".  So I 
could purchase a dozen Uboat-Worx submarines and rent them by the hour 
to tourists at some resort, all without violation of US federal law or 
requiring any certification whatsoever.  In large part, I've witnessed 
the underwater business world (subs, scuba, etc) to be pretty much 
dog-eat-dog.  Get enough rum in me at the rum party and I'll tell you 
some stories.

Jon


irox wrote:
> Key phrases here are "commercially operate" and "legally carry passengers for hire", so these
> restrictions  do not apply to psubs since we are not commercially operating vessels, nor are we
> carrying paying passengers.  Also note this clause is not limited to submersibles/submarines
> be any vessel which is carrying paying passengers or being "commercially" operating.
>
> This is why Carl Stanley doesn't operating in US waters.
>
> Ian.
>   




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