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Hi Brent,
It's pick on Szybowski day today.
I looked at the syntactic foam as a sandwich material
between fiberglass, & its great
for that, however its weak point is the through
hulls.
I can't see how it would strengthen against impact very well on the inside without being the core in a sandwich.
Also there would be weak points round through hulls etc as
you'd have to cut and glue to fit round & under pipes etc.
Wouldn't any foam do that would return to its original
form after compression, If its for escape practice purposes.
I'm a bit ignorant of the process of practicing an
escape from your sub.
What depth are you intending to escape from
?
What about the electronics being flooded ?
How do you get the sub up, it must weigh tonnes once the
airs out of it.?
Also it sounds a bit like practicing rolling your car in
case it rolls.
regards Alan.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 7:28 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] KL-250's
Syntactic Foam Data
Hi Brian,
I'm installing
syntactic foam for a number of reasons. I'll list them in the order I find
most important at the moment.
1. Extra Collision protection
2.
None Compressible, None Molding Insulation from cold and heat
3.
A large amount of hydrostatic load protection
4.
Echo reduction
5. Smoothing out the interior for
easy cleaning
6. Practice working with Syntactic
Foam
========================================================
Syntactic
foam is the only foam I know of that will not crush with the hydrostatic
pressure I intend to expose it to during wet exit training with this sub. Also
mold and mildew love fiberglass and cork insulation. Have you ever had to
clean up beer, or that lovely fluid people discharge when they get car sick,
out of your vehicle? All Ill need is a garden hose and a shop
vac.
I have though of using several layers of the foil bubble rap
insulation you see in the hardware store for raping around hot water tanks and
what not. Since it will simply compress the bubbles when pressure is applied,
and not break them. But you would still have water on both sides of that
material that would take some time to dry.
Since I'm replacing
the weakest parts of the original K-250 sub design, such as the blown dome and
the forward viewport assembly. I plan to upgrade the subs operational depth to
500 fsw. So I guess that would make it a KL-500. ;}
The
polyurea coatings are many times used in sealing concrete in large aquariums
and ponds. They say if you let them cure long enough they will not harm
the fish and other aquatic life. How longs that is, I would expect would
depend on a number of factors, such as chemical formula, thickness, location,
heat, airflow, etc. I do know that the fast cure coatings like Rhino and
Turboliner seem to off gas very quickly. They use these coatings on the
inside of Hummers, Jeeps, boats, kitchens, and what not. If you can't
smell it any more when you close the hatch I would say your good to go. But it
might take a few weeks with some coatings.
Perhaps this is a good place
to use the canary in the coal mine method. As for me I prefer to use
mosquitos. ;}'
Regards,
Szybowski
From: ojaivalleybeefarm@dslextreme.com
To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Polyurea
Coatings for Submarines
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 20:53:21 -0700
Brent,
Are
you insulating the inside of your sub against the cold? If so why the
syntactic foam instead of another type? That isocyanurate tends to out
gas in think, might want to be carful of that in a closed
environment.
Brian
I
have two local friends, that spray polyurea coatings
commercially. One sprays in on there steel dock weldments and other
items. The brand they use is TurboLiner. At the moment I plan to have
them spray the interior of my sub after all the syntactic foam is
cured.
http://www.turboliner.com/turbo_liner_vs_others.html
"Polyurea is a type elastomer that
is derived from the reaction product of an isocyanate
component and a synthetic resin blend component
through step-growth
polymerization.
Practical uses
Truck bed linersPolyurea truck
bed liners form a durable, water and air-tight, permanent liner for the
exterior of pick up trucks, dump trucks and steel containers. These durable,
easy to clean and abrasion resistant liners protect utility trucks from
their harsh duty environments. They also protect against rust and corrosion
from damaging trucks and containers. Polyurea liners can also be applied in
varied thickness to meet any specific application demand. Sprayed on truck
bed liners are available in many colors and can be wrapped over the top edge
of the truck bed to provide added protection from impact and
abrasion.
Pipe and pipeline coatings and
liningsPolyurea coatings and linings are increasingly being used
to protect steel pipes from corrosion. Polyurea has demonstrated its ability
to last longer than paint and maintenance services and costs are reduced.
Polyurea is a great protective coating system for pipes that are insulated
with polyurethane foam. Polyureas are also being used to line the inside of
water and sewer pipes for infrastructure rehabilitation
work.
Bridge coatingPolyurea's ability
to outlast paint and fight off corrosion is a major reason these systems are
being specified for bridge deck and structure coating by State DOT's around
the nation. The most common applications of polyurea coatings on bridges are
over steel and concrete.
Joint fill / caulkPolyurea is
being successfully used as a multi-purpose joint fill, caulking and sealant
material. It can provide a flexible, durable, weather-tight and traffic
resistant seal for all types of building joints, such as expansion joints
and control joints in masonry floors, perimeter joints, panels and doors,
water reservoirs, etc. It has excellent crack-bridging properties with high
elongation and tensile strength. The fast cure time and insensitivity to
moisture allows for a quicker installation with a wider application window.
Proper surface preparation and substrate condition is always
necessary.
Holding tanks
Tank coatingsPolyurea coatings
protect steel tanks from corrosion, chemicals, and other natural weather and
jobsite elements. With proper surface preparation, substrate condition,
formulation choice, primers, and installation procedures, polyurea goes on
fast and stays on long. Polyureas are great for extending the life of older
tanks and can offer limited structural characteristics as well. These
systems can be applied during primary construction or in a retrofit
environment. With their fast cure times they are ideal for retrofit since
down time is significantly minimized compared to some competing
materials.
Tank liningsPolyurea linings are
resistant to many chemicals and industrial liquids. With their fast
application advantages and ability to adhere to properly prepared
substrates, polyureas are ideal for new storage tank primary lining and
rehabilitation projects.
Waste water treatment liningsFast
cure, chemical and abrasion resistant, concrete primary and secondary
containment linings.
Aquarium liningAquariums have
also found benefits with polyurea. The ability to form to properly prepared
custom shaped walls and themed ornaments make this system desirable. A spray
applied, water resistant liner, available in a variety of colors with rapid
return to service installation is why facility owners are turning to
polyurea.
Landscape & water
containmentLandscape designers and contractors have found
similar benefits with polyurea. Polyurea is often used to contain water for
ponds and pool decorations to form a primary containment liner. Use of
geotextile material is common when applying polyurea over dirt. Proper
surface condition is vital when applying over concrete and most other
substrates.
MarineAbove the water line and
below, polyurea can be very effective in protecting steel, aluminum, and
fiberglass in a variety of water sport and commercial marine applications.
From sound attenuation for fishing canoes, to fish hold liners, to hull
protection and bilge liners, polyureas are used in many abrasion, chemical
and corrosion resistant marine
applications. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyurea
Sounds like a good product for coating concrete
submarines as well.
Another brand
of polyurea coatings is http://www.xtremeliners.com/
There
is also some interesting polyurea data here in this PDF.
http://www.kta.com/knowledge/PACE2005/Polyurea%20Coatings%20CLO.pdf
Regards,
Szybowski
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