Greetings Dan,
It's good to hear from you. Your correct that the galvanizing would coat O-ring grooves and threads on thru hulls and what not, but for the most part I don't have any in the new configuration of my hull. I still have those pesty blind threaded holes in the two conical fustrum viewport seating rings on my conning tower that hold the retaining ring on, that I would like to change. But the current plan with those is to install screws in them before the galvanizing is done. Then remove those after and clean up the surface and then reinstall them before the final epoxy painting is done. Then install them with moly grease in hopes that I won't have rust running out of them later. This is why I want to figure out a different way to attach the viewport retaining rings on those viewports that look good and don't have threads in the main hull.
The bulk of my thru hulls are all going to go thru the large plate thru hulls I'm welding into the hull. Two in the front head, one in the rear head, two on top, and two on the bottom for over pressure plate valves/wet exit sub drain, drop weight levers, and the two rotating thru hulls for the two braking flap rudders.
So that leaves the two new SS thru hulls for the side pods. Those will not have any O-ring grooves in them, since those will be installed into the shaft portion some what like Alec's electrical thru hulls, unless I find a better rotary seal before then. So on those I will need to protect the smooth inner surface of those pod thru hulls with a solid plug, unless I go for a mini plate thru hull configuration for those pod thru hulls.
I've seen so many rust night mares that I'm willing to go the extra mile now, so I don't have all the headaches later. I might very well use this sub a lot in salt water in a more then a weekend warrior capacity. Who knows, maybe I'll follow Scott Cassell around the inside of the gulf of Mexico. He only has one small thruster, so I should be able to keep up with my four.
I'm not really into the galvanized look, so I plan to Rhino coat my trailer after it's galvanized. I found some older Volkswagen bug fenders that I plan to modify to be used as my sub trailer fenders, and then of course paint them yellow. ;}
The support rings will have a number of small venting holes drilled into them and since I'm more then doubling the strength of the support rings with a new set of A516 GR70 webs and flanges attached to the existing rolled A36 angle iron, the vent holes shouldn't be a strength issue.
I hope to be totally done with welding before galvanizing, but if you remove galvanizing far enough around a weld zone they say it's not bad to weld. Just don't breath any of the fumes if you do get a lot of heat to the zinc. Then you need to recoat the metal with a good coating like, cold zinc, hot zinc spray, or a high zinc epoxy primer.
Regards,
Szybowski
From: Jumachine@comcast.net
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hot Dip Galvanizing a Steel Sub Hull
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 08:04:14 -0400
Brent,
How are you going to protect your through hulls?
Won't the molten galvanize coat the inside of things like O-ring grooves and
threads also? You'll never get the molten galvanize out of all the holes
and in places like behind frames to not have solidified puddles.
And, any welding you want to do later is a royal pain in the back
side.
Hot dipping a sub sounds like more work then it's
worth. If your a weekend diver like most P-subbers are a K-250 won't see
enough time in the water to justify all the bother. I can see dipping a
trailer if you want that look.
Just my thoughts,
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 11:59
PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hot Dip
Galvanizing a Steel Sub Hull
Hey
Frank,
I was wondering if some one was going to bite. Some time
back I was corresponding with Karl Stanley, and he mentioned that if he ever
built another sub he wanted to have it hot dig galvanized. That got me
to doing some checking. Karl's sub Idabel has a base coat of high zinc
epoxy primer, (green primer of death) and it has been operating in saltwater
for years. That basic type of primer is what many consider to be one of the
best steel primers for marine applications, and if Karl isn't completely happy
with it, he might just have a good reason.
I had data on the last 4 ft
OD hyperbaric chamber that my relative built and powder coated for about $500.
But unless your going to Rhino coat the whole hull inside and out in hopes you
don't chip the coating and the coating is a consistent thin enough thickness
to flex and not crack with the pressures you plan to dive the sub. I don't
find it to be the best option.
Hot spray zinc can be good, but you
need to spray it with in four hours of sandblasting from the data I found, you
will not be able to get it inside of small tubing and blind spots such as the
back sides of the flanges on my K-250's support rings. Not to mention it cost
about four times as much as hot dip galvanizing on average. But for large
weldment's that you are not able or willing to take to a large enough
galvanizing plant, hot spray zinc might be your next best thing.
http://www.galvanizeit.org/images/uploads/publicationPDFs/hdg_vs_met_sheet.pdf
Some types of hot dip
galvanizing will give you a nice smooth finish if the surface finish is smooth
to start with, like you can see on many Simpson Strongtie brackets for holding
joist up and the like. So other then some areas that will have some zinc drips
on them that you will need to sand off you can have a good base to apply your
epoxy paints to and then be able to seal your acrylic viewports, hatches, and
what not against those surfaces.
You will not want to leave the
galvanizing exposed in fresh or saltwater long term, with out a good top
coating and sacrificial anodes, or it will not last long term. I just
got back from a boat trip on Lake Roosevelt in Washington state, and saw
a larger dock that was held up in this fresh water lake by foam that was
covered in galvanized sheet metal boxes. All the galvanized sheet metal that
was below the water line was almost completely rusted away, and the dock
didn't look like it was all that old.
One of my local galvanizing
plants in Spokane, Washington told me that the common hot dip galvanizing
finish that you see that looks like a sort of crystalen structure with all
sorts of pieces of a puzzle, has lead in the mix, and it's called a spangle
finish, and they didn't want to have hot lead in there facility for health
reasons.
That plant has a 7 ft deep tank, that is 5 ft wide and 16 ft
long. They quoted me $350 for dipping my 15 ft sub trail, of which they
would have to dip on edge and one side at a time. They called it progressive
dipping. All tubing and areas that would have air pockets if dipped at a
particular angle, need to have small venting holes drilled into them.
This will be a bit tricky for me since I'm adding a flange to the other side
of my support rings, making them into T's like on the K-350's and the addition
of horizontal weldments between them. I don't know if they can tilt the
hull when it is in the molten zinc for some configurations to make sure all
the air pockets are vented. The original small threaded steel nipple thru
hulls on the heads of my sub will all be removed and the two large ring plate
thru hulls in each head will replace them, and those will drain much
better.
I've heard that some galvanizing plants weigh your weldment
before and after it is galvanized, and charge you by the weight of zinc that
was added to it. So don't bolt on any zinc anode molds and think your going to
get away with it. ;}
My K-250 will have to be progressive dipped with
it's bow up and then down so it can drain properly and fit into the tank that
is here local to me. Unless I have it done in Portland in one of the larger
plants there, or I make the from MBT front attachment means removable, of
which I might do for other reasons as well.
They first acid dip
the steel weldment to remove any oils, mill scale, and light rust, and what
not. Then it's dipped in a flux bath, then on to the galvanizing tank.
From the quote I got for my trailer, I suspect it will cost $350 to $500 to
have my sub and other large sub weldments hot dipped galvanized.
Also
of note, the SS tabs that will be welded onto the hull for bolting on things
to the hull should have now problem with being hot dip galvanized, even though
it's not needed on the SS. It might be best to later remove the galvanizing on
the attachment hole and other unpainted areas of those tabs for corrosion
issues.
The more aggressive the surface profile of the steel the
better the zinc bond. So blasting with copper slag will work better for me
then blasting with silica sand. For those of you with new weldments, the
guys I spoke to at two different galvanizing plants said, you don't have to
worry about removing mill scale and light rust since that is removed with the
acid wash. This would save a lot of time, but for the best results I
would media blast it first.
When I considered the cost of coating my
subs bare hull with a good quality high zinc primer at $75 a gallon, and
I knew I was planning on getting the subs interior wet at depth for wet exit
training, I figured I'd like to go for hot dip galvanizing the whole hull once
I was done all the welding mods.
Regards,
Szybowski
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