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Brent,
It seems to me you will be creating more of a hassle for yourself by having
these pontoons that you are going to have to inflate and deflate. I have a
couple of these 250 gallon rubber military water bladders that are used by the
military for dropping from helecopters to supply water to the troops. I
know your bladders are not going to be this large but they still will probably
be very heavy and very hard to deal with. Also they are going to add to
the time that you have to deal with these things. If you are out in the
open sea and have to f*** around with a big elephant like rubber monster
you're going to have problems. Don't mean to be negative but from my
experiance with dealing with these bladders of mine, man they are harder to deal
with when they are empty than they are when they're full.
Brian
Hi
Brian,
A a couple of years ago,
when I was thinking about what I might like to upgrade on this K-250, I had
considered making a small wing platform that went over the main hull and went
out to hard integrated pontoons for extra stability at the surface, and a good
place to stand and work on getting ready to dive. I decided to go with
the inflatable pontoons for a number of reasons, they will be lighter,
less of a hydrodynamic drag when submerged and deflated, I know the right
expert, I can blow them at depth as a back-up, and since I want to
install a more complicated float system on a future sub design I'm working on,
I figured this as a good first step.
Regards,
Szybowski
From: ojaivalleybeefarm@dslextreme.com
To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable
Pontoon Configuration Options
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 20:21:51 -0800
I guess
I missed something but why aren't you going to use rigid
pontoons?
Brian
Hi Brent,
Another solution might be the small blowers that come
with air beds as they are small and sized for the exact operation you are
trying to perform except in reverse. You would of course then need an
inverter to get 120 volts from yur batteries.
Best Regards,
Jim K
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008
3:33 PM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Inflatable Pontoon Configuration Options
Hey
Ian,
You have a good point
about getting all the air out of the inflatable's. I wonders how
SEAmagine does it. I'll have to go look at there patent
again.
"Another object
of the present invention is, to provide a surface buoyancy supplementing
system that has a reduced cross-sectional area for underwater operation,
but also provides stability and buoyancy for loading and unloading
passengers."
http://www.google.com/patents?id=3gUHAAAAEBAJ&dq=6321676
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8spX4pRWQyE
My pontoons will be
strapped to a long narrow Rhino coated aluminum standing deck, and will be
sucked up into the bottom of said deck for submerged
ops.
After my last post,
I was trying to figure out how to remove the need for the two
bottom vent holes on the pontoons that have expansion valves on
them that I proposed, and the four manual valves and there corresponding
thru hulls that I mentioned earlier. Two that are for venting the air
out of the pontoons when at the surface, and being up higher in the
subs pressure hull, and two down low to allow air to freely flow
out of the pontoon as the sub accents from depth during a
emergency accent. That way I only have two holes to add to the top
of the pontoons. To be able to do this, I was thinking that a 12
volt vacuum pump could be installed inside the sub, and use it when at the
surface with your hatch open, to suck all the air out of the pontoons.
Perhaps a cordless vacuum could be found to work faster. The lines
would be attached on the inside of the sub right next to where the
inflation air goes in. At that point, there would be a valve on both the
vacuum line and pressurized air
line.
This
cordless Dewalt vacuum might fit the bill, and I can use it to clean the
interior of my sub as well. No more need to swab the decks.
;)' I had already planned on using one of these on my live aboard
sub for cleaning with.
http://www.cpopowertools.com/products/dc500r.html?ref=googaw&kw=%7Bkeyword%7D
This Dyson unit
is much smaller, and might fit better into my small
sub.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8026263&type=product&id=1157067256196
Then for being able
to properly vent the air from the pontoons if the pontoons are needed for
an emergency assent from depth I was thinking of just putting another
expansion valve next to the ones I first proposed on the bottom of another
downward facing T's in the 2 inch aluminum tubing that runs
towards the subs hull. This would get rid of the two lower manually
operated valves.
Since I'm
using one of the two tubes that run to the pontoons for both
inflating and deflating, basically making the tubes an extension of
the inside of the pontoon, I would only need one hole in the
pontoon. But since they are 7 or 8 feet long pontoons, and I want more
volume of air to be able to get to the four large expansion valves, I
thought I better have two
holes.
Regards,
Szybowski
>
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 13:32:14 -0500
> From:
irox@ix.netcom.com
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable Pontoon Configuration
Options
>
>
> Hi Brent,
>
> are you
planning on removing the inflatable pontoons before diving?
>
> I've consider the inflatable pontoon option before, but one of
the draw
> back I thought I'd run into is getting all the air out of
them. If they
> are on the sub during a dive with air trapped in
them, the buoyancy of
> the sub will change as the sub goes deeper.
A solution was to detach the
> pontoons and bring them into the sub
when diving - althought the extra
> work an storage requirements are
kind of a draw back of that idea.
>
> I like idea of cutting
the bottom out of a zodiac boat, adding some
> attachment points to
the sub so the zodiac can be attached to the sub
> when it's on the
surface. Detaching the zodiac when ready to dive
> and leaving it on
the surface (with a dive flag).
>
> Cheers,
>
Ian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Brent
Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
> >Sent: Dec 13, 2008
4:47 AM
> >To: PSUBSorg
<personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> >Subject:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Inflatable Pontoon Configuration Options
>
>
> >
> >
> >I left out that I'll need two
venting valves next to the hull and thru hulls for them, just above the
tubing attachment points on the hull. I can see now that it might be
better to add two outlets at the bottom of the pontoons and place the
expansion valves there instead, so to be able to blow any water out that
might get into them. There are floats available that contain two tubes
inside, one in front and one in back. These might be a better option for
several reasons.
> >Regards,Szybowski
> >
>
>From: brenthartwig@hotmail.comTo:
personal_submersibles@psubs.orgSubject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Removing Front
MBTDate: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 01:30:34 -0800
> >
> >Hey
Frank, I sold my sewing machine for a MIG welder, so I'm SOL. ;)' I have a
friend that is a real pro and making these type of floats and designs and
manufactures the very custom machines that Zodiac and others use. So I was
thinking of having him make one from scratch, but he and I decided that
with all the very nice premade units that are available, we could likely
find one that we could add two large top custom vent holes in and be done
with it. Since I'm configuring these to be blown at depth if needed in an
emergency, it's more work to calculate and design. At the moment I'm
planning to install two 2 inch ID basic vents that I can attach a short
flexible hose to, then that hose attaches to one of the 2 inch schedule 40
aluminum tube supports for the tangle guard and pontoon standing platform.
This way I don't need a extra hose on the outside of the sub, since that
said support tube can serve double duty. Then as the tube goes toward the
sub, there is a downward facing T added to the tubing with a large volume
low pressure pop off valve facing downward attached to the bottom of the
T. This expansion valve will be set at the proper level needed to keep the
pontoons inflated at the surface. Since there is one expansion valve on
each of the two tubes that come towards the sub, they should keep me from
popping the pontoons during surface ops. Then for blowing the pontoons at
depth I feel I need to add another set of T's right next to the sub that
go down well below the bottom of the pontoons and that tube will be curved
to the shape of the hull, and at the bottom of that tube will be a large
valve that is attached to a thru hull at that point. This is so I can
operate it from inside, just like a MBT vent valve in the conning tower. I
obtained that basic idea from the two tubes that come out of the bottom of
the large plastic pipes with caps, that were used on the Dennoch sub.
http://www.psubs.org/museum/museum_sfphotos.html For filling the pontoons
with air from the SCUBA tanks, I'll have a thru hull going right thru were
one the the tangle guard support tubes attaches to the side of the sub.
This is a little more work, but will give me a cleaner look when finished.
That is the concept I have worked up to this point. I'm sure it will need
some fine tuning, once I have made a full assembly model of it, I'll have
you guys take a look at it, as well as my local
expert.Regards,Szybowski
> >
> >From:
ShellyDalg@aol.comDate: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:48:46 -0500Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Removing Front MBTTo:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >Hi Brent. Seems like you could
make your own pontoons fairly easy and cheap. As long as they weren't
necessary to ascend. You can buy rubber sheeting and also tubes off the
shelf in pretty much any thickness you want. Making a big inner tube type
pontoon should be pretty simple, and the same guys who sell the
tubes/sheets have several types of glue that bond stronger than the
material itself. That may be a good way to save some money, and give you
more flexibility on the shape.
> >You could also make a nylon bag
for it to protect it from abrasion and sunlight. Just sew it together on a
regular sewing machine. Frank D.
> >
> >
>
>Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites
in one place. Try it now.
>
>
>
>
>
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