Side scan for sure would be Ideal. Budget will hinder me on this one. Seems
like last I new
a unit that would do the job is much more than I will have in the entire
sub.
I have worked with our local search and Rescue with around a $100,000 unit
and it would be
nice. heheh more toys
Dean
In a message dated 8/29/2008 9:18:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
ag@desertstar.com writes:
Dean,
You may want to consider doing initial acquisition of a
target with a side scan from the surface. Cheaper and you can go
faster. Then break out the sub when you want to explore/document a
target in detail. Perhaps not as fun as 100% sub, but will probably
be quicker.
Hope you find some great
wrecks.
-a
-----Original message----- From:
Recon1st@aol.com Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:11:01 -0700 To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stopping
Flaps
> Hi Ian my goal of 6kts is because of the reason for
building. > I want to explore Lake Superior. From what I can tell from
soundings, most > of the bottom is > featureless flat
bottom. Thousands of ship wrecks etc and I want to find and >
document at > least one. > > So the real reason is my
age. Lake Superior is large and there is so little >
time. > > Visibility is good up to 100' or so, and I would
like to cruise above the > bottom 20 30 feet, to view > the
maximum area. I do have general areas that some of the more famous ones
> went > missing, but once again a lot of ground to cover and
mostly boring. > > Many good points have been raised about
brakes and I think I understand the > concerns. > My best
safety procedure is not to tread in waters deeper than 350'. I >
totally understand > that this is a lot of speed and possibly
dangerous. > > Speed will only be used when I feel safe
doing so, and for sure a good look > at the search > area
with surface sonar will be standard operating. > > Forward
searching sonar is a must for avoidance, reverse thrust and very
> quick maneuverability are > my other solutions. Murky water
would be a complete NO NO > > Besides all else I am
going to paint it pretty and will not stand for any >
scratches > > Dean > > > In
a message dated 8/28/2008 3:03:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >
irox@ix.netcom.com writes: > > > Hi, > > kind
of similar to Andy's "lots of reverse" idea: If you plan to travel
at > 6knots, then your motor must be able to deliver the required
thrust to get > you to that speed. So, why not just select a
motor which can deliver 4x > (or what ever multipler is appropriate)
the force you need and have a > "full emergency reverse" button
which would use the full power of the motor > to slow the sub down
- idealy the emergency reverse speed would cut off > after a
certain period. You would only ever use at maximum 1/4 power
for > non-emergency operations. We know reverse works and
this would involve > only beefing up components that are already
going to be used (i.e., no > new inventions, research and risk
required). > > I've read this thread out of order, so maybe this
was already discussed. > > Dean, what's the reason the sub
needs to travel so fast? > > Cheers, > Ian. >
> > -----Original Message----- > >From: Andrew
Goldstein <ag@desertstar.com> > >Sent: Aug 27, 2008 7:00
AM > >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org > >Subject:
Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stopping Flaps > > > >The
following should be filed under "insane" and not attempted without A
> LOT of testing etc, but for the sake of discussion, >
> > >A primary benefit of the small sub is enhanced dynamics
and low inertia, > which makes systems which are not viable on a
large sub possibly interesting. > Think deep flight
vs an SSN.... > > > >If truly for "extreme and
eminent" collision, it seems that it may be > possible to add a
few extra external scuba tanks and some > >regulators and a
control manifold inside the hull. These extra bottles >
could normally be held in reserve for backup buoyancy or as a redundant
ballast > blow system. Or in an emergency move a valve on
the manifold and blow A LOT > of air forward of the sub. >
>An air jet break. It has the added benefit that if you
design it wrong > you may instead get aft firing torpedoes
:) > > > >-a > > > > >
>-----Original message----- > >From:
Recon1st@aol.com > >Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:48:58
-0700 > >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org > >Subject:
Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stopping Flaps > > > >> R/Jay I
understand this problem. And my thoughts are only and extreme
> >> eminent collision would this > >> be
deployed to avoid or lesson the impact of a collision. If ever
> deployed > >> surfacing is required. >
>> my prop will be shrouded and foul proofed rudder. >
>> > >> The one scenario I can think of that would
not be a good idea to deploy > >> would be running
into a > >> fish net. Sure do not need any thing else
getting tied up. But for the > >> boulder that will
jump up > >> and smack me, I do think this is a viable
solution. > >> > >> Dean >
>> > >> > >> In a message
dated 8/26/2008 11:30:56 A.M. Central Daylight Time, >
>> bottomgun@mindspring.com writes: > >> >
>> > >> Dean, > >> You have
to be concerned with the chute fouling your propulsion/steering
> > >> motors. A big sub could just
shred the drogue while you could lose > propulsion >
>> just when you need it most. Remember that the Navy
decided that drogues > and > >> speed brakes
were a bad idea after much testing and stuck with operating
> >> within the envelope. > >> R/Jay >
>> > >> Respectfully, > >> Jay
K. Jeffries > >> Andros Is., Bahamas >
>> Talk sense to a fool and he calls you
foolish. > >> - Euripides (484 BC - 406
BC) > >> > >> > >>
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org >
>> [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf
Of > Recon1st@aol.com > >> Sent: Tuesday,
August 26, 2008 8:51 AM > >> To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org > >> Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Stopping Flaps > >> > >>
> >> I did not know these were tried on military subs. I
just thought it was > a > >> good idea to be
able > >> > >> to stop
quicker. > >> > >> I do think for
my purposes just the sea anchor blown out of it's housing >
> >> would be best for > >> >
>> my needs. Seems like the manual brake flaps would be
quite complicated > and > >> slower
than > >> > >> I would
like. > >> > >> > >>
> >> Dean > >> > >> >
>> > >> > >> In a
message dated 8/25/2008 7:43:51 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> >> brenthartwig@hotmail.com writes: > >>
> >> Dean, > >> > >> I found a
couple more items. I'm having trouble finding a picture of the
> >> flaps open. I had one a while back. >
>> > >> >
http://imageevent.com/albacore/albacorehistoricphotos;jsessionid=r9qabaad11.ti >
>>
ger_s?n=25&z=2&w=0&x=0&c=4&m=24&p=24 > >>
"The parachutes were attached to the after end of Albacore's
fairwater > >> and successfully streamed while the ship
was cruising submerged. The > >> resulting >
>> deceleration curves indicated that such a system
effectively aided in > >> emergency recovery."
> >> Project "Bailout" might not have been the most
successful of Albacore's > >> tests but it certainly
showed some creativity was at work." > >> >
>> http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/albacore.htm >
>> > >> Regards, > >> Brent
Hartwig > >> > >>
____________________________________ > >> >
>> From: brenthartwig@hotmail.com > >> To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org > >> Subject:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Stopping Flaps > >> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008
17:03:24 -0700 > >> > >> Dean, >
>> > >> You could install some sort of stopping
flaps (speed brakes) on both > sides > >> of
your sub that are curved to fit the shape of your hull. Much like
a > US Navy > >> test sub USS Albacore. Then operate
them with hydraulics or adapted > electric >
>> actuators starting with a unit like the Lenco Trim Tab
actuators. > >> > >> I've been planning on
having this type or braking system on my winged > >>
underwater gliding subs. With two stopping flaps on the training
edge of > the wings. > >> One opening up, and one down at
the same time. > >> "Built as a test bed for the U.S.
Navy, the Albacore featured a > >> tear-drop shaped
hull, new diving controls, a dorsal rudder and a new >
>> high-yield steel for her pressure hull. In addition, the
Navy, at one > time > >> or another,
experimented with speed brakes, contra-rotating screws, a >
>> drag chute, camouflage paint and three different
arrangements of stern > >> control surfaces. >
>> The NSF report ignited debate within Navy circles over a
variety of > >> issues such as the merits of twin
propellers vs. singles, and the > sacrifice >
>> of surface stability for undersea speed. The result of
the > recommendations > >> and ensuing debate
was the U.S.S. Albacore. > >> > >> The
Dorsal rudder was reinstalled and enlarged and the boat >
>> was outfitted with speed brakes. These brakes - another
concept borrowed > >> from aviation - technology,
consisted of 10 hinged panels ringing the > >> after
part of the ship. When needed, they were hydraulically opened into
> > >> the waterflow, bringing the boat to a
rapid stop." > >> > >>
http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/albacore.htm > >>
> >>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Albacore_(AGSS-569) >
>> > >> Regards, > >> Brent
Hartwig > >> > >>
____________________________________ > >> >
>> From: Recon1st@aol.com > >> Date: Mon, 25 Aug
2008 18:55:44 -0400 > >> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Air Tanks > >> To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org > >> > >>
> >> > >> Frank I am using 12hp for my
main propulsion. I gave up trying to > calculate >
>> speed but I should have > >> >
>> plenty. The reason for so much maneuverability is the
bottom of Lake > >> Superior many granite
boulders > >> > >> etc. I will need
to travel pretty fast to cover any amount of the Lake. > I am
> >> thinking of a 20 to 30' above the >
>> > >> bottom but at 6 knots or so when
one of those big beast jumps up in > front of > >>
me, I am going to need > >> > >>
options. A transfer pump or sliding weight for sure would not fit
my > needs. > >> I may even have an >
>> > >> emergency sea anchor deployment
for quick stops. Reverting back to my > drag > >>
racing days. > >> > >> >
>> > >> I loved the dry dive video. I
learned much watching it maneuver I have > >> greater
confidence that my > >> > >>
efforts should yield the kind of performance I am looking for. Not
to > >> mention it oughta be a real >
>> > >> hoot to drive hehehhe >
>> > >> > >> >
>> Dean > >> > >> >
>> > >> > >> In a
message dated 8/24/2008 8:15:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> >> ShellyDalg@aol.com writes: > >> >
>> > >> Hi Dean. I think you're chasing
the right idea with front and back dive > >> planes.
I had considered that but let it go because of the extra work. It
> just > >> seems to me that back dive planes
would be a real plus if you have > enough > >>
power to make them work. Did you see the "dry dive" videos? With
the > center > >> mounted dive planes the sub stays
level when ascending/diving but it > would be nice >
>> to be able to angle the sub just with the dive planes.
Like you say, > much > >> like flying. I don't know
how much speed you'd have to get to make the > dive
> >> planes overcome the front/back balance, but if
it's close enough to > neutral, it > >> may not take
that much power. > >> > >>
Twin trim tanks front and back with a transfer pump would help if
the > pump > >> was able to shift weight fast
enough. Maybe a sliding drop weight would > be >
>> less trouble to make. I will be able to shift the seat
forward and > backward a > >> little and I'm hoping
that will give me a little angle change. Damn, I > wanna
> >> get this thing wet soon! Frank D. >
>> > >> > >> >
>> > >>
____________________________________ > >> > >>
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal > _here_ > >>
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
. > >> > >> > >> > >>
> >> > >> > >>
____________________________________ > >> > >>
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal > _here_ > >>
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. > >> = > >> > >> > >>
> >> > >> > >>
____________________________________ > >> > >>
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal > _here_ > >>
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. > >> > >> > >> > >>
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>> > >> > > > > >
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