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One thing about the new solar technology,
is that they are able to capture more then one wave length of light to get about
the 24% efficiency mark. Also keep in mind that a given sub may sit at a
harbor or anchored some place on the surface in the sun for days or even weeks.
I don't currently expect to be running only on solar power, but it might
seriously offset my diesel usage at times. When I combine that with underwater
turbines, a massive towing kite system, and wind turbines, I think I have some
thing. Also not all those systems have to be installed at once if it's not
a financial option during the time the sub is being built, just planned ahead
for. So bit by bit you become more efficient and even up grade to newer
designs as they become practical.
I've been also looking into a mini mirror
light concentrator system that collects light from a number of mirrors then
focuses that light onto a heat collector that runs a very high precision
sterling engine to run and alternator. This system might be easier
to figure out how to submerge it to great depths with out to much trouble. Since
the open mirrors are open to pressure on both sides with no air or gas space, or
electronics to compress at depth. The system would be designed to fold
into some top compartment areas using hydraulic actuators. Also the mirror
collector system could also rotate and tilt to track the sun. One
important item is the misting sprayer system that sprays distilled water on all
the mirror surfaces when the sub surfaces to keep salt and hard water marks of
the mirrors surfaces.
To produce distilled water with out using
much if any stored battery power, I was thinking that since reverse osmoses
systems usually use the pressure of the water that is supplied to it from pumps
that of course use power. That instead you could use the pressure from the
exterior water when diving, along with a pressure regulator to power the reverse
osmoses unit(s). Thus producing all your freshwater needs while submerged if
your down long enough, and you have one or more large reverse osmoses units.
Just brain storming guys. Just remember I'm a submarine half full of water kind
of guy. :)'
Brent
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 12:58
AM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solar Panels
on Submarines
[7 years old data, things may have changed]
The
efficiency of photo-voltaic cells varies between 8% (cheapest) and
24%
(what NASA uses). Of course what NASA uses costs a **lot** more
than
the cheapest. I think the average efficiency is around 14%.
Since 1
square meter get approximately 1000Watts of sun light, we could
say area of
photo-voltaic cells we need to generate 1KW is
1000 / (1000
*.14)
Which equals 7.14 square meters, maybe round it up to 10 for cloudy
days.
A long time ago I designed I solar powered submarine.
This was more
fantasy than anything else, but it seemed to work on paper
(calculations
could be completely wrong and I was missing a lot of
factors). Submarine
was a large world traveling sub, with a mission
time of several months.
The power was provided by a large zinc air(O2)
battery, which was
based (speculated) on technology by a Canadian company
claiming to have
scalable regenerative zinc air battery. This battery
was big enough
to power the sub all the time (surface or dived), but it
needed to spend
25% is sunny climates recharging.
The recharging was
handled by solar concentrators that would fold out
of the casing.
These where kind of like half pipes, shiny on the inside,
with a bar
running a long the focal point. These would track the sun
for most
energy. The bars at the focal point contained 24% efficiency
solar
cells, but only a thin strip (a small amount of solar cell per
square
meter). The solar cells are water cool to keep them in there
optimum
operatating range.
The company that made NASA's solar panels
sells the off cuts very
cheaply. While too small to make big solar
cell, they could be
used for solar concentrator type applications.
I
think it had the capacity to generate 10KWatts at full capacity,
which is
probably too little. But the sub did have a hot tub so
the hot water
(40C) from cooling the solar cells could be use
(also, something to do
when you are waiting for it to recharge).
Cheers,
Ian.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian Cox
<ojaivalleybeefarm@dslextreme.com>
>Sent:
Jan 8, 2008 1:15 AM
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Subject:
RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solar Panels on Submarines
>
>I think you
would be wasting your time putting solar panels on
your
>submarine. The amout of suface area you would need
just to get one
>kilowatt is about the size of your average roof on your
house, not even
>enough to run a
toster.
>
>Brian
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]On
Behalf Of Brent Hartwig
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 3:37
PM
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solar Panels on
Submarines
>
>
> James,
>
>
Permanently mounted exterior solar panels for subs rated for a range
of
>depths, is a very big challenge I've only begun to explore. There
are all
>sorts of new solar panels designs coming out these days, and
it's tough to
>keep track of them all, whether they work, and whether
they are in mass
>production yet. The designs are getting more and
more efficient as well. So
>to begin to answer your question, I would
say you should have as much square
>footage of the most efficient panels
you can acquire, that can be submerged
>to the depth specs of your sub
and that don't cause to much drag or to much
>of an entanglement
hazard. I've heard about a couple different designs that
>you can
walk on and that can conform to the surface shape of the subs
hull.
>
> Your idea of a retractable deck gave me all sorts
of ideas for how that
>could work. I'm a big proponent of having
allot of deck space on a large
>recreational submarine. So that is one
of the reasons I like a trimaran
>design. For retractable designs
you could start with some sort of slide out
>design of the top area of
the sub. Much like on a motor home. This would of
>course effect
stability in a single hull sub, so that will have to be
>planned
for.
>
> The German Type 212A is a interesting design. What
if you tweaked it a bit
>and made the bow into a plumb bow, like a wave
piercing boat design. This
>way you have more control while submerged,
and learn the lesson Peter
>learned with Kraka.
>
>
Regards,
> Brent
> ----- Original Message
-----
> From: James Huffman
>
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 2:19 PM
> Subject: RE:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Millennium Cell
HydroPak
>
>
> Some questions. As
far as using solar cells to help recharge the
>batteries, what would be
a good size to do that with? The other idea, is
>thanks to my
sister, whom does not like the idea of a steel tube w/o winows,
>and
likes the open air. How about a retractable deck? I am not sure
how
>that would work out, but I do think that it would be
interesting. Just some
>thoughts. As of current, my
submarine design is roughly based on that of
>the German Type
212A. Using a diesel/electric propulsion, as well as the
>ocean
current/flow generator to help recharge batteries while siting on
the
>bottom. Just some thoughts.
>
>
James
>
>
> Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
Ian,
>
> Interesting
information. From the looks of the data on there PDF
>file, they
have larger units planned as well. Also there is a note about it
>being
safe for indoor use with zero harmful emissions claimed. I'm still
not
>sure if the cartridges take O2 out of the air, but it doesn't look
like you
>have to provide any from a tank. I'm not sure what your
talking about with
>regards to water vapor collection. It sounds like
you just pour some water
>into the unit of which goes into the cartridge
starting a chemical reaction.
>I wouldn't expect all that much water
vapor to come out of it. But if there
>was you could have it's vent
going directly into your air circulation system
>that has water
absorption cartridges
inline.
>
>
>
>
Regards,
> Brent
Hartwig
>
>
>
> >
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 15:54:05 -0500
>
> From: irox@ix.netcom.com
>
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Millennium Cell
HydroPak
>
>
>
>
> >
Hi,
>
>
> > seems a company called
Millenniunm Cell are releasing
(or
>demonstrating)
> > a
customer fuel cell at CES in Las Vagas next
week:
>
>
> > http://gizmodo.com/340275/hydropak-fuel-cell-to-debut-at-ces-2008
>
> http://www.millenniumcell.com/fw/main/MCEL_in_the_News-69.html
>
>
> > Seems their approach is to
have a generator unit with replaceable
>
> cartridges containing H2 (in some
form).
>
>
> > Is anybody on the list
attending CES this year and could check
it
>out?
> > I'm wondering about
the suitability for use in psubs, either for
AIP
> > or as an emergency power
option.
>
>
> > How safe is it for
non-ventilated spaces?
> > Is water
vapor collection going to be difficult to
implement?
> > Specifics about power
output (claims 25Watt continuous at 100V
AC).
> > What chemical is the hydrogen
stored in?
> > Does it provide it's own
O2 (I'm guessing we supply that)?
>
>
> > Nice to see these products
making their way to market.
>
>
> >
Cheers,
> >
Ian.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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