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RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solar Panels on Submarines
[7 years old data, things may have changed]
The efficiency of photo-voltaic cells varies between 8% (cheapest) and
24% (what NASA uses). Of course what NASA uses costs a **lot** more
than the cheapest. I think the average efficiency is around 14%.
Since 1 square meter get approximately 1000Watts of sun light, we could
say area of photo-voltaic cells we need to generate 1KW is
1000 / (1000 *.14)
Which equals 7.14 square meters, maybe round it up to 10 for cloudy days.
A long time ago I designed I solar powered submarine. This was more
fantasy than anything else, but it seemed to work on paper (calculations
could be completely wrong and I was missing a lot of factors). Submarine
was a large world traveling sub, with a mission time of several months.
The power was provided by a large zinc air(O2) battery, which was
based (speculated) on technology by a Canadian company claiming to have
scalable regenerative zinc air battery. This battery was big enough
to power the sub all the time (surface or dived), but it needed to spend
25% is sunny climates recharging.
The recharging was handled by solar concentrators that would fold out
of the casing. These where kind of like half pipes, shiny on the inside,
with a bar running a long the focal point. These would track the sun
for most energy. The bars at the focal point contained 24% efficiency
solar cells, but only a thin strip (a small amount of solar cell per square
meter). The solar cells are water cool to keep them in there optimum
operatating range.
The company that made NASA's solar panels sells the off cuts very
cheaply. While too small to make big solar cell, they could be
used for solar concentrator type applications.
I think it had the capacity to generate 10KWatts at full capacity,
which is probably too little. But the sub did have a hot tub so
the hot water (40C) from cooling the solar cells could be use
(also, something to do when you are waiting for it to recharge).
Cheers,
Ian.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian Cox <ojaivalleybeefarm@dslextreme.com>
>Sent: Jan 8, 2008 1:15 AM
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solar Panels on Submarines
>
>I think you would be wasting your time putting solar panels on your
>submarine. The amout of suface area you would need just to get one
>kilowatt is about the size of your average roof on your house, not even
>enough to run a toster.
>
>Brian
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]On Behalf Of Brent Hartwig
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 3:37 PM
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Solar Panels on Submarines
>
>
> James,
>
> Permanently mounted exterior solar panels for subs rated for a range of
>depths, is a very big challenge I've only begun to explore. There are all
>sorts of new solar panels designs coming out these days, and it's tough to
>keep track of them all, whether they work, and whether they are in mass
>production yet. The designs are getting more and more efficient as well. So
>to begin to answer your question, I would say you should have as much square
>footage of the most efficient panels you can acquire, that can be submerged
>to the depth specs of your sub and that don't cause to much drag or to much
>of an entanglement hazard. I've heard about a couple different designs that
>you can walk on and that can conform to the surface shape of the subs hull.
>
> Your idea of a retractable deck gave me all sorts of ideas for how that
>could work. I'm a big proponent of having allot of deck space on a large
>recreational submarine. So that is one of the reasons I like a trimaran
>design. For retractable designs you could start with some sort of slide out
>design of the top area of the sub. Much like on a motor home. This would of
>course effect stability in a single hull sub, so that will have to be
>planned for.
>
> The German Type 212A is a interesting design. What if you tweaked it a bit
>and made the bow into a plumb bow, like a wave piercing boat design. This
>way you have more control while submerged, and learn the lesson Peter
>learned with Kraka.
>
> Regards,
> Brent
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: James Huffman
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 2:19 PM
> Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Millennium Cell HydroPak
>
>
> Some questions. As far as using solar cells to help recharge the
>batteries, what would be a good size to do that with? The other idea, is
>thanks to my sister, whom does not like the idea of a steel tube w/o winows,
>and likes the open air. How about a retractable deck? I am not sure how
>that would work out, but I do think that it would be interesting. Just some
>thoughts. As of current, my submarine design is roughly based on that of
>the German Type 212A. Using a diesel/electric propulsion, as well as the
>ocean current/flow generator to help recharge batteries while siting on the
>bottom. Just some thoughts.
>
> James
>
>
> Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ian,
>
> Interesting information. From the looks of the data on there PDF
>file, they have larger units planned as well. Also there is a note about it
>being safe for indoor use with zero harmful emissions claimed. I'm still not
>sure if the cartridges take O2 out of the air, but it doesn't look like you
>have to provide any from a tank. I'm not sure what your talking about with
>regards to water vapor collection. It sounds like you just pour some water
>into the unit of which goes into the cartridge starting a chemical reaction.
>I wouldn't expect all that much water vapor to come out of it. But if there
>was you could have it's vent going directly into your air circulation system
>that has water absorption cartridges inline.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Brent Hartwig
>
>
>
> > Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 15:54:05 -0500
> > From: irox@ix.netcom.com
> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Millennium Cell HydroPak
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > seems a company called Millenniunm Cell are releasing (or
>demonstrating)
> > a customer fuel cell at CES in Las Vagas next week:
> >
> > http://gizmodo.com/340275/hydropak-fuel-cell-to-debut-at-ces-2008
> > http://www.millenniumcell.com/fw/main/MCEL_in_the_News-69.html
> >
> > Seems their approach is to have a generator unit with replaceable
> > cartridges containing H2 (in some form).
> >
> > Is anybody on the list attending CES this year and could check it
>out?
> > I'm wondering about the suitability for use in psubs, either for AIP
> > or as an emergency power option.
> >
> > How safe is it for non-ventilated spaces?
> > Is water vapor collection going to be difficult to implement?
> > Specifics about power output (claims 25Watt continuous at 100V AC).
> > What chemical is the hydrogen stored in?
> > Does it provide it's own O2 (I'm guessing we supply that)?
> >
> > Nice to see these products making their way to market.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Ian.
> >
> >
> >
> >
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