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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hello Everyone



I did check the archives as much as I could for CO2 Scrubbers, And I did not find a definitive design or system listed anywhere. Perhaps it came up in September, for which the archives are not up yet. Who knows. :-)


Bryce

On Oct 4, 2007, at 12:09 AM, Sean T. Stevenson wrote:

Bryce, welcome to the list. You obviously have a lot of questions. Many of
these can probably be answered with some further research.  Aside from
scouring the internet for answers, a few good places to start would be:

Rules for Building and Classing underwater vehicles, systems and hyperbaric
facilities, ABS

Safety standard for pressure vessels for human occupancy, ASME

Concepts in submarine design, Burcher and Rydill

Manned submersibles, Frank Busby

and of course, everything on the PSUBS website.

To address a couple of your specific questions off the top of my head - active sonar is an indispensable tool for underwater navigation, and there are many units available for a wide variety of applications. Radar is only really practical on a large sub with significant height of antenna - where this makes sense, you can simply pressure compensate it. As for through hull linkages, you can achieve linear motion, but it is usually better to stick to well constrained rotary motion and convert that as necessary outside the hull. Depth determination by sonar, typically referred to as an altimeter, is not robust. Depth determination is usually performed with a pressure transducer. While there are few if any rules that pertain specifically to recreational submersibles, they are watercraft and as such are subject to the International Regulations for the Prevention of Collisions at Sea. The FBI is aware of PSubs. Your responsibility as a designer is merely to be as prudent as possible - while you may not certify your sub to ABS or equivalent standards (an arduous and expensive process), it couldn't hurt to design to those specs wherever possible. The safer we are, the better chance we have at staying deregulated. Radio does not propagate well through water, except at extremely low frequencies. GPS will not work when submerged. Underwater navigation is achieved in most PSubs simply by a combination of sonar and dead reckoning. In more advanced systems, an inertial measurement unit can provide position estimated based on accerations integrated over time - such position estimates are subject to integration error (inversely proportional to the cost of the IMU), and must be corrected occasionally. There are many
different CO2 scrubbing systems - check the list archives.

Good luck!

-Sean


On October 3, 2007 20:34:42 Bryce Yarbrough wrote:
Hi Everyone!

My name is Bryce, Jon thought it would be a good idea for me to
introduce myself to all 500 and something of you. I am 19 and based
in Los Angeles, and am in the design phase of my submarine. (Jon also
thought it would be a good idea to make sure I can at least post to
the mailing list because for some reason, my email system is
different then everyone else's on here and he wants to see if it
works or not. So hopefully it goes through). Other then that, here is
the first post I planned on putting up to the mailing list several
days ago, but because I just have to be different, I got rejected
several times because of my email layout, so here goes...


Hello Everyone!

I am knew to this mailing list and site, but not that new to the
world of submarines and robotics. I have been actively involved in
robotics throughout high school and have been working with them for
over 6 years now. I also built a small R/C Submarine, and have
decided that a goal of mine is to build a submarine. With the help of
my high school (we are doing it through the robotics club as a
project, great way to get materials, electronics, and money donated
to the submarine) we are going to build a sub. We are looking at
about 30 Feet long with a 5 or 6 foot beam. I have run into several
questions, that even despite my research, I cannot answer at this
time, so I am turning to you guys :-). (btw I am 19, just to let you
know). My questions are (at the moment that I can think of):

-How do you seal up a hole in the pressure hull that contains any
such motors to control the dive planes or rudders, if the linkages
move forwards and backwards through the hole, instead of just turning
(any other ideas on the subject would be great)

-We have decided that we want to use a Life Support System involving
scrubbing the CO2 out of the air, and releasing O2 into the air when
needed.
	-- Anyone figured out a great system to do this with yet?
	--Anyone have sensors and such equipment yet?

-To recharge the ballast tanks, we want to use an onboard electric
air compressor (I just don't like the thought of fuel onboard the
ship), anyone have any suggestions on which ones to use, things to
look out for?

-Navigation/Electronic Equipment:
	-- Sonar:
		---Any systems that anyone USES for their subs, how well they work,
etc?
		---Hydrophones yet?
		--- Active Sonar Systems?
	--Radar:
		---Does anyone use radar for when they are on the surface?
		--- How do you keep the radar antenna safe when you dive?
	--Radio:
		---I am assuming that any radio designed for marine purposes will
do, but how do you protect the antenna, any suggestions?
	--GPS:
		---I know some of the complete sonar/navigation/radar systems
utilize GPS (which is a great thing I think)
		--- BUT.. again, how do you protect the antenna, and does it work
underwater?
	--Depth Gauge:
		--The fish finder sonar systems tell you how deep the water is, but
not how deep you are
		-- So how do you know how deep you are ( I would prefer to stay all
digital, because then things can be run by the computer for
autonomous modes and various exercises) ?

Sorry its alot of questions, I know. :-)

-Any laws that pertain to the use of personal subs for recreation? I
know after the N.Y. incident the FBI is taking subs a bit more
seriously, any tips as of yet? (We are based out of Los Angeles)

I know there are some subs out there that utilize windows based PC's
that run the navigation equipment and monitor equipment and systems
on board the ship, so I was wondering if there was anyone who had/has
such a system or knows what they use or how they do it, I would
appreciate it.

BTW, when I speak in terms of robotics, we do all remote control
based robotics, so there is no actual computer interaction involved,
its all radio based.

Anything else you want to add I am MORE then welcome to take in all
the information you guys can through at me.
Anything involving, materials to build the hull out out(looking at
Carbon Steel i.e. Mild Steel), viewports, hatch systems, safety
systems, ballast systems, surfacing systems/procedures for knowing
when its safe to surface/etc. I cannot really think of anything else
at the moment, but I am inviting ALL forms of advice (especially from
Peter Madsen (Kraka is my inspiration, absolutely amazing vessel!)

That is all I can think of, Hopefully you guys can help me out!

-Bryce Yarbrough
byarbrough@mac.com
+1-(818)-324-1521 if you live in the U.S. (I cant afford
international rates, well I think it just takes away from my minutes,
so sure, go ahead and call me from foreign countries, it will be fun!



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603-529-1100
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