[PSUBS-MAILIST] Water Toy

[Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>]

Thank you for taking the time to give us that information Wil, 
 
I've been thinking about that subject with regards to taking a live aboard submarine abroad, and having to deal with allot of different countries, there different laws and/or paranoia's. I had to do the same sort of thing with regards to using safe terminology in my tropical bird farm. I needed to use the wording of tropical birds, instead of exotic birds. I liked the wording of exotic birds more, just like I like the the wording of private submarine more. But it can be a very paranoid world some times.
 
I'm designing my live aboard sub to look none military, so I avoid allot of fuss.
 
I liked your advice.

Regards,
Brent Hartwig

> Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:40:04 -0700
> From: clientes@tolimared.com
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] sub registration problems
> 
> 
> To answer pierre, dan,...
> 
> I am not sure if i said it already at this forum ...
> I registered my 20 ton 9m autonomous yacht submarine in AUSTRIA as a 
> "floating water toy below 10m length electric powered" - no 
> registration needed - no licence needed - back in 199.
> 
> I had a fellow submariner who had a trailerable sub of kittrige size 
> whose project was shut down a year ago in 1995 due to police 
> intervention when he towed it out of his garage on a trailer.
> 
> The argument - in his case - was "Austria is not permitted by 
> Constitution law to have "SUBMARINES"
> 
> This passus was written by the british in austrias post war 
> constitution and meant to avoid any future u-boat threat to the 
> british islands in the future.
> 
> So wherever you live when you build a sub (be aware that you might 
> trigger a certain grade of paranoia) - it can make a hell of 
> difference to the authorities depending what WORD you choose for your 
> hobby. Take "water toy" instead of "submarine" you will be fine - in 
> austria .
> 
> Here in Colombia a yacht submarine will get registered as a boat - no 
> difference.
> 
> P sub building is not only reading the tech papers it is also: 
> authority, register and related problems - management.
> 
> Don´t get surprised - know the law text when police FBI etc come on 
> board - and pierre - do not fear in most cases it tends to be easier 
> than you would expect.
> 
> When i had police comming on board my submarine yacht in austria first 
> question was "what is this" (i knew my text - avoid submarine) "a 
> electric powered watertoy below 10m with no registration duty" - ah - 
> -interesting- may i sit for a moment in the driver seat... and police 
> never returned when i was out for a nice submarine yachting weekend.
> 
> Authorities do not want nor seek "problems" they just want a way to 
> FIT you in somewhere in their existing rules - make sure that this 
> happens convenienty - in any case avoid that authorities are obligated 
> to act - due to a nasty roumor - somehow - and against you - be 
> proactive - be a open book chat with them - meet you local navy 
> commander - port captain - talk nicly to FBI when opportunity arise - 
> as we have seen sometimes it will.
> 
> Be a good embassador of your sport.
> 
> I remember the time when ultralight flight was whiped out in Austria 
> by a law that said "all flying vehicle that does not fit into existing 
> airline regulations is forbidden and not wanted in austrian airspace" 
> - this was later reviesed by lobbying from a powerful hobby industry - 
> and integration of european laws - be aware that psubbers does´nt have 
> a lobby yet...
> 
> Peter, great boat you have built - my honest reference on that - keep 
> your dream going !!!
> 
> Cheers Wil
> (concretesubmarine.com)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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