Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS and FBI

Lets think about what they could do with a sub...

1) Sink ships by firing torpedos: Maybe in a movie. In real life, it would be a ridiculous plan for dozens of reasons.

2) Infiltrate a harbor to place explosives on ships: Their chances of doing so undetected would be infinitely better with SCUBA gear that is easily purchased off the shelf. In particular with rebreathers. A sub on a trailer is about the worst possible plan if you're trying to go unnoticed. And I presume a sub is easier to detect when submerged as well.

3) Place explosives at great depth: Sure, but evil as I may be, I cannot come up with any useful targets at depth beyond SCUBA.

4) Smuggle things like people or explosives: This is the only viable nastiness I can think of, but you'd need a big diesel electric sub in the range of Peter or Carsten's. I can count the people building such boats, worldwide, on one hand. Building a boat that size would also be pretty hard to do unnoticed, and the effort is huge when compared to conventional means of smuggling. Anyone proposing a diesel electric sub for smuggling would have an exceptionally poor sense of cost/benefit. The drug subs I've seen in the news are not really subs at all, they're just David boats designed to run on the surface while keeping a low profile.

Having said that, it is amazing how many people, when they find out I have my own sub, are amazed that it's legal. They assume a little one person K-250 has potential as a weapon. It doesn't at all! I presume the fact it's legal is due to someone in the Navy or Coast Guard having a more educated notion of what our toys can and cannot do.

cheers,

Alec

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From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Nomdae Plume
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:32 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS and FBI

Hopefully their isn?t anyone on this forum using a fictitious name? quietly lurking in the background? gathering up all kinds of notes on building a viable submersible?

Nah? what was I thinking.

From: "Stephen Pearce" <sjpearceqld@bigpond.com>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS and FBI
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:00:26 +1000

Jon

It?s very sad really that every post on this forum is very probably being monitored and assessed by the US Fed?s. So much for an innocent hobby!

I had to laugh when I read his last name was ?Smith?. Did he have dark sunglasses too! J

Steve Pearce

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jon Wallace
Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 2:48 AM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS and FBI

Hello,

Given the growing popularity of using submersibles for illegal and/or suspicious activities, the federal government is interested in knowing more about psub type submersibles. One thing I've not seen anyone talk about regarding the convention yet, is that we were approached by a special agent of the FBI on Friday at the dive site. I had accounted for all participants except for Frank D, and not having met him before I didn't know what he looked like. Shortly after we arrived at the dive location, I saw a gentleman walking down the path. I approached him and said "Frank?" anticipating that Frank D. had arrived. He said "no", then looked at me and said "Jon?". I said "yes", and he then pulled out his FBI identification (Special Agent David Smith), explained why he was there, and asked to learn more about the submersibles we use.

Agent Smith made it clear from the outset that we were not doing anything illegal and he was not there to stop us from using our submersibles or continuing with our convention. I brought him around to the various subs we had on site, explained how they functioned, and also explained the difference between 1-ATM, ambient, and wet-subs. I then invited him to speak to us the next day at the seminar we were holding, which he agreed to do. Agent Smith spoke to the assembled group on Saturday and explained that after the sub/QE2 incident in New York recently, the FBI was researching small subs. He explained that in the post-9/11 environment, the FBI would like us to remain vigilant and report any suspicious requests, discussions, or activity that might seem out of the realm of what a recreational/personal submersible might be used for.

Given another drug sub capture, we can expect continuing attention to our hobby.

Jon

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