From: Marie-Andrée et Pierre <poulin.carrier@videotron.ca>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS and FBI
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 21:20:34 -0400
Talking about legality of psubs,
Here in Canada, I tried to register my sub but nobody, and I mean nobody,
police, costum officers, transport ministry agent, could point me to any
law regarding psubs registry.
So it fell into the canoe / kayak category because it is very small and
have an engine below 9.9hp. And can go without registration...
But I have yet to see a lake police officer...
Pierre
----- Original Message -----
From: Smyth, Alec
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 6:17 PM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS and FBI
Lets think about what they could do with a sub...
1) Sink ships by firing torpedos: Maybe in a movie. In real life, it
would be a ridiculous plan for dozens of reasons.
2) Infiltrate a harbor to place explosives on ships: Their chances of
doing so undetected would be infinitely better with SCUBA gear that is
easily purchased off the shelf. In particular with rebreathers. A sub on a
trailer is about the worst possible plan if you're trying to go unnoticed.
And I presume a sub is easier to detect when submerged as well.
3) Place explosives at great depth: Sure, but evil as I may be, I cannot
come up with any useful targets at depth beyond SCUBA.
4) Smuggle things like people or explosives: This is the only viable
nastiness I can think of, but you'd need a big diesel electric sub in the
range of Peter or Carsten's. I can count the people building such boats,
worldwide, on one hand. Building a boat that size would also be pretty hard
to do unnoticed, and the effort is huge when compared to conventional means
of smuggling. Anyone proposing a diesel electric sub for smuggling would
have an exceptionally poor sense of cost/benefit. The drug subs I've seen
in the news are not really subs at all, they're just David boats designed
to run on the surface while keeping a low profile.
Having said that, it is amazing how many people, when they find out I
have my own sub, are amazed that it's legal. They assume a little one
person K-250 has potential as a weapon. It doesn't at all! I presume the
fact it's legal is due to someone in the Navy or Coast Guard having a more
educated notion of what our toys can and cannot do.
cheers,
Alec
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From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Nomdae Plume
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:32 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS and FBI
Hopefully their isn't anyone on this forum using a fictitious name.
quietly lurking in the background. gathering up all kinds of notes on
building a viable submersible.
Nah. what was I thinking.
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From: "Stephen Pearce" <sjpearceqld@bigpond.com>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS and FBI
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:00:26 +1000
Jon
It's very sad really that every post on this forum is very probably
being monitored and assessed by the US Fed's. So much for an innocent
hobby!
I had to laugh when I read his last name was "Smith". Did he have dark
sunglasses too! J
Steve Pearce
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jon Wallace
Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 2:48 AM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] PSUBS and FBI
Hello,
Given the growing popularity of using submersibles for illegal and/or
suspicious activities, the federal government is interested in knowing more
about psub type submersibles. One thing I've not seen anyone talk about
regarding the convention yet, is that we were approached by a special agent
of the FBI on Friday at the dive site. I had accounted for all
participants except for Frank D, and not having met him before I didn't
know what he looked like. Shortly after we arrived at the dive location, I
saw a gentleman walking down the path. I approached him and said "Frank?"
anticipating that Frank D. had arrived. He said "no", then looked at me
and said "Jon?". I said "yes", and he then pulled out his FBI
identification (Special Agent David Smith), explained why he was there, and
asked to learn more about the submersibles we use.
Agent Smith made it clear from the outset that we were not doing
anything illegal and he was not there to stop us from using our
submersibles or continuing with our convention. I brought him around to
the various subs we had on site, explained how they functioned, and also
explained the difference between 1-ATM, ambient, and wet-subs. I then
invited him to speak to us the next day at the seminar we were holding,
which he agreed to do. Agent Smith spoke to the assembled group on
Saturday and explained that after the sub/QE2 incident in New York
recently, the FBI was researching small subs. He explained that in the
post-9/11 environment, the FBI would like us to remain vigilant and report
any suspicious requests, discussions, or activity that might seem out of
the realm of what a recreational/personal submersible might be used for.
Given another drug sub capture, we can expect continuing attention to
our hobby.
Jon
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A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here.
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