----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 4:26
PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Yet
another "drug" sub captured.
Peter,
Being polite is understandable. The u-boats, up untill after the
Laconia incident, did wat they could for survivors, from the ships that they
sunk. Not every u-boat did this, but from understanding, most
did. WIth the exception of U-852, u-boats followed the rules of
war. So, I do seperate actions at sea, from what the SS and the Nazi
doctor's did in the concentration camps. Sadly, no one has learned
from history. The Yugoslav Civil War, brought the use of concentration
camps again.
I have seen the pictures of the cold water test. Very sad what
they did. But, the post war military groups, such as the Coast Guard,
did make use of the information from those test. But unlike the Nazi
doctors, the Coast Guard uses the information to saves lives. You are
correct that that medial experiment is not German. It was a Nazi
atrocity.
Yes the sinking of ships, did cause a high loss of life. I was
unaware that the USA military in WW2 used captured German soilders to clear
mine fields. That is very sad, and also a war crime, uner the laws
used at the Nuembeg Trials. I know of the USS Wahoo, on its third war
patrol, machine gunned survivors from a ship that it had sunk, but it did
that a year before U-852 did the same thing. No matter what nation
does a war crime, it is very sad that it happens. It is even more sad
when the party involved in the war crime, does not get held accontable for
his/her actions.
I do agree that we all share the guilt. But knowing history, we
should be able to prevent it. Sadly, people tend to view history as
boring or do not care about history. If we understand history, we can
better prevent war crimes and atrocities that happen.
Best regaurds as well,
James
Peter Madsen <peter@submarines.dk>
wrote:
James,
In writing "Nazi" submarines I simply
tried to be polite. In Germany you will typically say that the Nazi´s did
this and that - When the German guide in Concentration Camp
Sachenhausen shows the tourists piles of human hair and shoes -
she does not say - this is "German" industrialized murder - but that the
"Nazi´s" did this...so that she avoids being identified with
it.
Today - I saw a picture on wiki -
showing a person in a Luftwaffe uniform lying in a bathtub with icebloks
around him. He´s is German - but unfortunately also a Jew. With him is two
Luftwaffe medical officers - writing down his reactions on paper as he is
slowly freezing to death. They measure time vs. body temperature and takes
notes when he loses continence and when the heart finaly
stops.
This is not a German medical experiment -
this is a Nazi atrocity.
The submarines of both US, Soviet and German
navies killed sailors, civilians and soldiers by the thousand in
much the same way ( in the pacific theater death is caused but other
effects - but result is the same ) - and for that matter my own beautiful
peaceful countrymen enjoyed killing German soldiers AFTER the surrender by
using them to clear minefields on the westcost - by forcing them to walk
though it.
In my humble opinion being humans we all
share the guilt - and the capability for war - and atrocities.
Its not a German, Soviet or US
specialty. Submarines did their gruesome part - and may do it
again.
One US Trident SSBN can destroy a continent
in about 15 minutes...and will do so if the President issues the order...I
think they have fifteen of those...fantastic
machines...
Best regards, and back to joyrides in
homemade subs...
Peter
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007
9:21 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Yet
another "drug" sub captured.
I agree with you for the most part, how ever, I will disagree with
you about the nazi part. Nazi was just a shorted form of NSDAP,
national socialists german workers party. It was a political
party. So, I do seperate German Navy from nazi's, or nazi
navy. As for the submarines that the German Navy was planning onn
building, yes the Type XIX and Type XX were ambitious. They did
end up using the Type IX, as well as the Type XB for cargo. The
Kraka is a very beautiful submarine. I would be interested in
knowing the cost of building the Kraka. And yes you are correct,
that there is no right way to do something that is wrong.
James
Peter Madsen <peter@submarines.dk>
wrote:
Sirs,
Submarine technology have often been used
for malice purposes - ranging from anti merchant shipping
campaigns during the two world wars to nuclear deterrent during the
cold war and today. Bad of cause depends on the view - fact is the submarine comes out very
successful in most of these missions and may today be
considered one of the most effective navel weapons in
existence.
If the drug smugglers did it right - with
real uboats outfitted with diesel electric propulsion - and using
snorkels - frankly the transit from south American waters to US waters
would be very safe for them - when having the alternatives in
mind. Problems arise when on loading and off loading the cargo -
but even this has a technical solution.
I am sure the submarine would serve its
master as well as it served the Germans, US Navy
and Soviet Red Fleet in its day. Drugs destroys
the life of many people - and causes an incredible amount of crime -
and I hope those making the profit will be on trail - but
like the in the case of the
Nazi´s I am impressed with the
audacity that they display by trying to build an functional long
range
smuggling boat, while I hope for
their defeat...
One more reason - that I am surprised
that the highest bid for Kraka until now is 100 US $
It can take 500 kg cargo - it can do the
transit submerged and or snorkeling and can be outfitted for long
range... : o) and would be a fine iron coffin if anything went
wrong...
There is no way to do something that is
wrong in the right way...
Regards...
Peter
Jeg beskyttes af den gratis SPAMfighter til privatbrugere.
Den har
indtil videre sparet mig for at få 20708 spam-mails
Betalende
brugere får ikke denne besked i deres e-mails.
Hent en gratis
SPAMfighter her.
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free
Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.11/944 - Release
Date: 8/9/2007 2:44 PM