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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] NR-2 Thruster Arrangement
Joe,
I just noticed (the light finally went on) about something you posted
earlier:
"Directional control one hand....rate (current flow) the
other. Joystick back all four thrust downward for rise, joystick
forward all thrust upward for descent."
I would probably do this different. If done in the appropriate manner, the
controls could be setup proportionally. The further you pushed the
stick...the faster the movement would happen(well the more thrust in that
direction would happen).
This would simplify your controls greatly. One hand doing thruster control
(up, down, left, right, and spin about it's vertical axis), and the other
hand handling the rudder(possibly differential primary drive motors) and
primary drive motors. This does depend on the method of rudder control and
the extent that you are willing to take the control system. This would make
the system totally in both hands other than ballast control, which could be
done as well, but that can be discussed later.
This doesn't simplify the surfaced maneuvering problems of the vessel. You
could put an additional button to enable the horizontal thruster for surface
operations(this would also disable the x thrusters). Then the standard
controls could be used.
All of this sounds expensive, but it can be done much cheaper than most
people think. Hence the reason I want to help. Plus I need a project to help
with.
James Long
Owner/Designer
Lil Brother LLC (Instrument Division)
From: "Joseph Perkel" <joeperkel@hotmail.com>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] NR-2 Thruster Arrangement
".........I would like to see your thruster design (actual motor pod), if
that would be
possible.........."
James,
I don't know yet, this is the "detail" stuff. What I am doing is
determining the concept and, then what it takes to do it.
You already have what I will start with, the K boat plans. Beyond that, I
will likely dissect a trolling motor, a well pump, and mine the ROV
groups,.... all for ideas. This along with various courses and texts. What
you see in the model is basic shapes, a cylinder, kort nozzle and, a prop
based on the size of the large Minn-Kotas.
Joe
>From: "Lil Brother LLC" <lil_brother_llc@bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] NR-2 Thruster Arrangement
>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:03:03 -0500
>
>Joe,
>
>The rigging can be done with different thrusters, but I'm not sure what
>situations may arise. I think it would be safe to assume (that word again)
>that the thrusters (once balanced) should work correctly in most
>situations.
>The controls (if done right) should be very intuitive after an hour of
>operating.
>
>This is all based on theory in my case. The balancing of the thrusters
>could
>reduce some of their functionality. For example.....in a vertical descent,
>the two forward "x" thrusters would have to be turned down, for the one
>rear
>vertical thruster to keep up. It may turn out to be the opposite is true,
>I'm not sure at this point. This could all be done with a microcontroller
>setup, and would be independent from pilot thought.
>
>The problem....the vertical descent would be slower. You see the evolution
>happening here.
>
>I would like to see your thruster design(actual motor pod), if that would
>be
>possible.
>
>James Long
>Owner/Designer
>Lil Brother LLC (Instrument Division)
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Joseph Perkel" <joeperkel@hotmail.com>
>To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
>Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 2:10 PM
>Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] NR-2 Thruster Arrangement
>
>
>Brent,
>
>I am assuming, (yet to confirm), that rigging the controls will be easier
>and more intuitive with both fore and aft in the X. Joystick left, or
>joystick right, all four are powered but in different directions.
>Directional control one hand....rate (current flow) the other. Joystick
>back
>all four thrust downward for rise, joystick forward all thrust upward for
>descent.
>
>Also, for surface maneuvering, I'll get some twisting moment out of the aft
>mains in opposition. Might as well maximize this force around the vertical
>axis with a lateral as far forward as possible. I added one here..
>http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&id=269116&pid=7143130&myphotos=1
>
>Lucky for me, I'll be building all these thrusters and testing them in the
>pool long before, the sub itself!
>
>Incidentally, the only "glue" time I get on the computer, is late at night
>to do CAD work at the expense of my sleep. The rest of the time is hit -n-
>run and, drive by emails!
>
>Thanks for helping me "think" this through, I call it "walking design",
>it's
>what occupies my mind when walking around....... Drives my wife insane!
>
>Joe
>
>
>
> >From: "Brent Hartwig" <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
> >Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] NR-2 Thruster Arrangement
> >Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:59:27 -0700
> >
> >
> >Good Morning Joe
> >
> >
> >I caught you glued to the computer again, didn't I? ; )'
> >
> >In regards to the NR-2 thruster arrangement, I was thinking about your
>aft
> >X thrusters and thought it might perhaps be a better and cheaper
> >arrangement for the aft thrusters to just be the basic one vertical and
>one
> >horizontal. This way you'll have the use of the horizontal thruster for
> >surface ops, without adding one in addition to the X thrusters in the
>rear
> >of your sub, like your thinking of doing in the bow. If I understand
> >correctly, the X thruster arrangement is primarily to limit the debris
>and
> >mud that would be stirred up even more by a vertical thrust causing you
> >trouble in visibility in you view ports. So since you don't have any
>stern
> >view ports that I'm aware of I thought the X thruster arrangement might
>not
> >be the best option for the stern of NR-2.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Brent Hartwig
> >
> >
> >"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. "
> >
> > -- Groucho Marx
> >
> >
> >
> >
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