Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Purpose of psubs.org?

["Rick and Marcia" <empiricus@telus.net>]

Hi, Stephen . . . there are a couple of things you've mentioned that took me
by surprise.

Before I address them, I'd like to re-state that THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A
DUMB QUESTION!!!  NEWBIES TAKE NOTE!!!  A psubs death does nothing for any
of us and a question withheld is a potential death.

The psubs "elite"?  I've been around for a long time and have never seen the
old farts shoo anyone away for whatever reason.  As often as we see the same
questions over and over I don't recall any of the experienced members being
intolerant.  Mind you, I don't read all the emails that come through, so I
may in fact have missed the really elitist items.

Archiving would be a plus but is a HUGE undertaking considering the material
that's been discussed.  But, I agree, lack of archiving does make it harder
for newbies.  It's been brought up before.  Ray does this on a volunteer
basis.  He deserves huge credit and occasionally we even remember to thank
him for his efforts.

As far as "Mr. J. K Jeffries" is concerned, I've just posted a reply to him
[onlist] regarding the blowup surrounding Bill, who's a sincere contributor
and actual owner of a psub.  JK has, as his sign-off implies, always been a
gentleman, professional and "respectful".  Suggesting that he is "treated
with contempt by many members off list" is a real gouge and could very well
be interpreted as defamation.

Frappr: what's the purpose of it?  As I'm the [currently neglectful] admin
guy for the Frappr site, I'd be curious as to the view of others surrounding
its inception.

There was very enthusiastic participation from the group.  Our excitement
was due to the fact that we could see at a glance where psubs activity was
occurring.  It was a way of sharing, open to all.  The Euro's, the Yank's,
the Cajun's, the Down-under's, we all had something proud to contribute:
namely, our home and, by implication, a regional contribution to the world
of psubbing.

The heavy duty subbers, and there are many, have always been supportive of
newbies.  Some of the list members do this for a living, JK being one of
them.  And, we are all aware of the consequences of alienating newbies by
appearing elitist or insensitve: An acute case of death.

Regarding test emails: Historically, requests usually show up when the list
is quiet, for example when 70 emails are exchanged offlist instead of
onlist.

Rick Lucertini
Vancouver, Canada




----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Pearce" <sjpearceqld@bigpond.com>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 8:51 PM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Purpose of psubs.org?


> Joe writes:
>
> "There have been times on this forum where I sense a reluctance and or
> fear to participate"
>
> This is a view that is often expressed in conversations that take place
> off list between members. Personally my ratio of 'off list' to 'list'
> emails send to and received from members runs at about a ratio of close
> to 70:1. This is also quite common amongst other members. How much in
> the group as a whole poorer as a result of all this Sub related
> information not being archived and referenced for later use.
>
> There does seem to be a Psub elite who tend to like to control, pass
> judgment and impose their code of conduct, the last post from Mr J K
> Jeffries (who may wish to take his own advice as he is treated with
> contempt by many members off list) being an example.
>
> Maybe there should be a PSUB elite forum for those with that attitude.
> Perhaps then the current forum would be more inclusive and inviting to
> newish members and the Frappr group would have never been needed.
>
> If everyone really wants this group and our interest to grow a more
> inclusive and tolerant attitude will have to be adopted by certain
> individuals. If this happens we may stop getting test emails to see if
> anyone is left alive!
>
> Steve P
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Joseph
> Perkel
> Sent: Monday, 4 September 2006 10:54 AM
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Purpose of psubs.org?
>
> Pierre,
>
> As you mention in your post, I believe sincerely in the dual purpose
> of......
> 1)"people sharing a dream".....and 2) technical discussions.
>
> Most people on various forums will never actually accomplish the stated
> goals, whether that be aircraft, ROVS, Submersibles, Boats....or most
> other
> things of interest.
>
> The common thread of course is the subject of interest. Simply
> discussing
> the subject and sharing ideas and aspirations will by default...advance
> the
> cause of whatever it is.
>
> There have been times on this forum where I sense a reluctance and or
> fear
> to participate, and this can be attributed to misplaced or projected
> anger /
> frustration. The cause of which is unlikely to be "sub" related. Human
> nature...life and it's realities seeping through.
>
> I myself was "set up" for a perceived failure not long ago and have
> experienced a "snub" or two. The recent nastiness is the kind of thing
> that
> puts people off. But, I keep the above in perspective and keep on
> trucking
> along.
>
> Bottom line....I find much more positive than negative here and feel the
>
> majority is in agreement.
>
> Joe
>
>
> >From: Marie-Andrée et Pierre <poulin.carrier@videotron.ca>
> >Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Purpose of psubs.org?
> >Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 20:21:30 -0400
> >
> >Hi guys,
> >
> >Well, after reading some of the recent post. I was wandering... What is
> the
> >purposed of this group? Is it purely for technical discution about sub
> or
> >is it also a social group of people sharing a dream?
> >
> >I ask this, because it is evident that all of us don't think the same
> about
> >this question. And if you take some time to think about it. It might be
> the
> >base of the periodic problems we have on the group.
> >
> >It is clear to me that Bill think the group is also a social group and
> that
> >he wanted to share an invention he worked on for 10 years. Even if it
> was
> >not sub related.
> >
> >It is clear that others think the group is only for sub discution.
> >
> >I for myself think this group is both. I have made some friends in this
>
> >group since the couple of years I've been here. They supported me in my
>
> >project both technicaly and mentaly (so to speak) so today I am able to
>
> >look in my backyard and see one of my dream come true. If something bad
>
> >would happen to any of them it would affect me the same as if it
> happened
> >to a close friend. That goes beyong tech speak for me.
> >
> >We are 200 + people on this group. And it would be impossible to ask
> that
> >we all share the same view of the purpose of the group. But one thing
> >should always be present: Respect. Because whatever we think, we all
> >deserve to be respected.
> >
> >I had a problem once with one of the group. I wrote him an offlist mail
>
> >telling him why I decided to put him on my ignore list. I would
> recommend
> >you guys do the same. That way, nobody's feeling gets hurt.
> >
> >My 2 cents worth...
> >
> >Pierre "peace keeper" Poulin
> >
> >
> >
> >
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