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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design Software

Aloha Rick,
 
Mahalo for the information.  I will start a file folder for all the information I receive and I am sure soon it will be full of facts I can refer to as I go along.
 
"What kind"?  I know 1atm means a dry sub and that's what I'd like to build.  I know about the K250 and K350, too.  They are fine but I think I like something longer with an engine for the surface beside motors for under water. 
 
But what is "ambient"?  A wet sub?  No I don't see much use for those.  If I am going to get wet and wear scuba, why do I need a sub?  I can swim or use a diver propulsion.  No, if I build a submarine it will be dry inside.
 
"How deep?  How many people?  What duration?"    This is all part of what I need to decide.  I have some ideas but not committed to any of them yet.
 
"Certified?"  No.  I know what this means and I do not plan to have it certified.  I don't even think I will have it registered as a boat unless the coast guard says I have to.
 
I think you can only "bail out" from about 130 to 150 feet but I would like a sub that can go deeper than that.  Maybe about 500 feet or like that?
 
I see in your other message you mention you have some slide rules.  Hey!  I never meant no offense to the slide rule crowd!  Just want to say I am only fair with numbers.  Just kidding there you know!  I appreciate your help!  No offense!
 
But if you are into mathematics that is good because that is where my questions are at right now.  I have heard the mathematics I need for figure out how big and strong I need make my sub is not rocket science.  (Hope I never offend any rocket people out there!)  What can you tell me about how to figure out what I need to know?  Is there any good books out there that you know of that would help a "regular math guy" like me?
 
I would like to know how heavy it has to be for how big it is, and how deep it can go without crushing.  This is hard to put into words.  Do you know what I mean?
 
Mahalo in advance.
 
Ross
 
rick miller <rickm@pegasuscontrols.com> wrote:
ross
 
    welcome
    i assume that you have some wants in s sub and a budget.
 
that where you start.
 
ambient or 1atm
how deep
how many people
how long duration
what type of view ports/ this point is really!!! expensive
will it be certified.aslo expensive can add 100 grand to the project.
 
look at the k350 for a good platform to start from
 
remember that everything is a tradeoff
 
the cheapest way to 1atm is to design around a depth that you can bail out from if you have a problem. with limited duration 2to3 hours. this allows for a small scrubber and a small o2 system. very simple system  yes you have trashed your gear but you are still alive.
 
    the hull expense is about 20% not including view ports and penitrators. propulsion systems are approx 10%
view ports can go up to 50% of the total cost.
 
    the expensive systems come into play when you start talking about 72 hr emergency  duration, surface comms, video, tracking devices, and hyd manipulators.
 
    i have a design for hyd manipulators that can be built for under 2000 $ if you ebay some and get creative with others. 
 that is two arms
 
rick m
----- Original Message -----
From: Ross Donato
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design Software

Hello everyone,
 
I just joined the group.  My name is Ross Donato and I live in Ewa Beach, Hawaii.  That's on the South side of the island of Oahu, West of Pearl Harbor and Honolulu.  I am a certified scuba diver but I prefer free diving and spear fishing with a Hawaiian sling.  To me, that is more of a challenge and more rewarding.
 
I have been reading your web pages and looking at the pictures for more than a year, ever since a friend who has connections with the University told me about you.  As you may know, UH operates small deep diving submarines and has made some important finds like the Japenese minisub from World War 2.
 
So, a little bit about me.  I have worked with machines and tools for most of my life.  I worked on mostly cars and boats, like that.  In fact that is what I do for a living, but it is also a hobby for me.  And! with the big four-oh just around the corner I was thinking "why not build a submarine?"  So I am here to learn what I can, and I will help out where I can, too.
 
I see you talking about the Rhino CAD program.  I have used it before and it is very easy to learn.  Even better is you can get it for free to try it out.  Use the link Julian gave below to get to the Rhino home page.  Look at the top and see the word "downloads".  Click that and you get to choose "Rhino evaluation".  That's it.  You can download it for free and use it.  I think you get like twenty-five saves or something like that before it quits.  But then you can always download it again.  It is a good program, simple to learn, and free.  I hope this is of some help to someone.
 
So, I just wanted to introduce myself and let you know of my interests.  If there is anyone willing to help me ! get started I will appreciate any help I can get.  I think I understand how a submarine works and I can draw my designs but right now I am having trouble trying to figure out where to start when designing one I might build.  How do I know how thick the steel must be, how much it all must weigh, and like that? 
 
Are there any books that explain how to figure that out that are not only for the slide rule crowd?  That would help me a lot to start.  I am a high school graduate and not too bad at math and science but I am no Einstein when it comes to that.  But I hear it isn't really so tough to learn and you don't have to be a big math whiz to do it. 
 
So, I throw my net and see what I get.  Any help getting started with the numbers, you guys out there?
 
Mahalo in advance.
 
Ross Donato
 

Julian Ford <rjford@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Another good 3d modelling package is Rhino,  Very easy to use, and powerful...yet also priced
for home users.
 
http://www.rhino3d.com/
 
Regards,
Julian Ford
Delphinus Technologies
!
----- Original Message -----
From: Shawn H.
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design Software

Catia V5...  Solidworks... Autodesk Inventor
 
But, they all WILL bankrupt you.  Autocad Inventor I believe is the cheapest.  There are some pretty good 2D Cad programs you can get for free if you have no need for 3D.  A good one I used was calle! d "Draft IT".  If you simply need a good 2D drafting program I wouldnt bother with Autocad, might as well get a free program.  For 3D, nothing beats Catia, that's why pretty much our entire modern fleet of military ships and planes are built with it.  Alas, it's a $14,000 program.
 
Biggest problem with design software is simply the training involved.  To give you an idea:  certified Catia drafters make starting salaries of $65,000+/year... just to draw parts.
 
The best "alternative" to the expensive 3D Cad software is "Alibre".  It's actually free for the most part, but a fully licensed version is still only like $300 I think.  It's a newer system but the support is there simply because of the free "trial".  Also cool because it's designed to be used online ! so you can collaborate with other designers.
 
Shawn
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 10:01 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design Software



The time has come to graduate from MS Paint and Word as my primary design software.
Any suggestions? Try not to bankrupt me though! :)
Thanks
Joe
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