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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] was "Freya", now is "planes are more complex than subs"
Hey, now wait a minute!!!
Compare Bill's wetsub with Kent Markham's semi-dry
with Kittredge's K boats with Deep Worker with . . .
Now, compare an ultralight with a Cessna 172 with a
twin with a Rotorways chopper with . . .
Each level is a shift in design, an increase in
complexity. I can most assuredly state that Magical Child, my
about-to-be-built dry ambient, is a very simple boat that will provide acres of
viewing capacity and long distance touring. Pina Coladas on the
beach, indeed.
I would claim that while the stressors are
different, both types of craft can be as simple or complicated as we'd like to
make them. Just ask any pilot who's has to bail out because a cotter pin
wasn't in place. A professional kayak builder, the basis to Magical Child,
can knock off a kayak in a very short period. So can an ultralight builder
put out one of his planes.
The science of sub/plane building is well
established. It's the cutting edge of these technologies that is the
complicated part.
I'm with Carsten on this one.
Rick
Vancouver
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:22
AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re:
Freya
> Carsten,
> I respectfully disagree with you
saying .
> We have a plane, as well
I'm a boat captain. I also build many model craft.
> Planes work on
ONE element of physics... LIFT. And that's it. Add speed,
>
control, and you have a plane. As well, material concerns with planes arent
> as crucial as with subs.
> Subs have to fight against TREMENDOUS
odds just to even SURVIVE, let alone
> function. I need not list
these things, as we all already know.
>
> Of all the machines
mankind has built, even the space shuttle... the
> SUBMARINE still
remains the most expensive and complex piece of machinery on
> the
planet.
>
> Compare a psub to an ultralight... you cant say an
ultralight is a more
> complex machine then the psub. You also cant
say an ultralight is harder to
> build. You can build an ultralight
in a week or less. Most psubs are built
> over years of
work.
>
> I agree that varying degrees of use determine complexity,
but the sub by
> nature far outweighs in complexity most of what mankind
is able to
> construct. If it wasnt difficult, everyone would have
one parked on their
> lawns. They'd be like jet-skis.
> -----
Original Message -----
> From: "Carsten Standfuss" <Merlinsub@t-online.de>
> To:
<personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 11:32 AM
> Subject:
Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re: Freya
>
>
> > If you can build a
airplane - you can build a submarine also..
> > ..I can build both and
believe me a aircraft is more complex.
> >
> > A submarine is
from the physic a very simple machine.
> > People here discuss
sometimes very complex solutions- but normal you can
> > build such a
sub with very plain technology.
> >
> > The problem on second
hand submarines is that they normaly designed for
> > the very special
wishes of her owner. You have to decide if you can life
> > with this
very special solutions.
> >
> > Sgt.Peppers for example is a
boat without a sail and a very low
> > freeboard- only useful in Lakes
without waves. If you life on a ocean or
> > a big lake with fast
motorboats...
> >
> > Freya is also a very special boat
designed for shallow harbour waters.
> > If you life on a deep lake or
ocean...
> >
> > To say I want a psub - because it is on the
market is the same as to say
> > "I want a onshore vessel with four
wheels" - can be anything from a
> > small Porsche up top a heavy
truck.
> >
> > The question is more to ask : What should "my "
vessel do for me ?
> > Than look with this defintion what the market
has. And in 95 % of the
> > vessel you will not find your
definitions - and than start to build
> > your own.
>
>
> > regards Carsten
> >
> >
> > Joseph
Perkel schrieb:
> >>
> >> Bill, Carsten
>
>>
> >> As Al pointed out, she wont fit in the UPS
overnight
> >> express envelope. I was aware of Freya being for sale
before I joined
> >> the group. She's a fine boat, a testament to
her builders passion and
> >> skill but, she will never really be
any one else's boat now will she?
> >> (Rhetorical question)
>
>>
> >> I could build an airplane, that is a certainty as I
have expertise in
> >> that field...but nothing "speaks" to her
owner quite like a seagoing
> >> vessel and submarines are... well
special. To actually design and
> >> build a functional one is a
rare individual lifetime achievement. A
> >> lot of people can climb
Everest, just pay your money and go fall off,
> >> but this...is
really special.
> >>
> >> Eventually, I will learn this
business and get down to making a
> >> memory.
>
>>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >>
>
>>
> >>
------------------------------------------------------------
>
>> From: Carsten Standfuss
<Merlinsub@t-online.de>
>
>> Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >> Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Free Flooding Spaces
>
>> Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 22:41:34
+0100
> >> >Ask him
directly..
> >> >
>
>> >http://www.submarines.dk/
>
>> >
>
>> >regards Carsten
>
>> >
>
>> > > Akins schrieb:
>
>> > >
>
>> > > Hi Joe.
>
>> > >
>
>> > > I know you wanted a WW2
somewhat looking sub design. I
> >>
heard that
> >> > > Freya was
for sale at one time by Peter Madsen.
>
>> > >
>
>> > > Have you checked out Freya yet
Joe? She has that WW2
> >> look about
her.
> >> > > She was originally
diesel/electric but I heard
> >> >
>
> >> > > Peter removed the
diesel to make it less cramped and now
>
>> Freya is only
>
>> > > electric. I wonder if she is
still for sale and if she
> >> >
>
> >> > > is, for how much?
The advantages would be she is already
>
>> built and
>
>> > > working with view ports and
all, the disadvantages
> >> >
>
> >> > > would be the cost
and she is only set up with electric
>
>> motors right
>
>> > > now so her range is more
limited. But she had a diesel
> >>
> >
> >> > > in her
before, perhaps you could replace it again and
>
>> have both diesel
>
>> > > and electric.
>
>> > >
>
>> > > Does anyone know if Peter still
wants to sell Freya and
> >> for how
much?
> >> > >
>
>> > > Bill.
>
>> > >
>
>> > >
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >
>
>> >
> >>
>
>>
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