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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inner / Outer support ribs.



Dan,
 
   Your input is invaluable.  Thank you.
 
   I was assuming that your name in the "From" part of the mail was a link to your own e-mail.  Evidently, it isn't.  Can you mail me your address ?  I wouldn't mind discussing a few things further.
 
myles.h@sasktel.net
 
Myles.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan H.
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 7:54 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inner / Outer support ribs.

Myles,
 
I don't drill the rings.  What I wrote is CLAMPING TO the rings.  I have seen holes drilled in framing rings but I'd rather not compromise them either, so I fashioned clamps that either clamp to one ring or clamp between two adjacent rings as need be.  But, all my PREPAINTING mountings were made by welding to the hull itself. 
 
Some builders go through the trouble of making their farming rings a bit over sized and have them machined true round, then fit them to the hull.  I built mine to exact size in a pretty accurate steel jig.  Welding can warp them into a pretzel if not done with some fore thought.  You need to preheat, then weld in separate stitches ,mine were about four or five inches long at different locations on the ring to minimize warping. 
 
The forces of weld shrinking as it cools can be used to your advantage when welding the rings into the hull.  There, I skipped around stitching them in also.  My rings came off the jig with maybe 1/16 to 1/8 out of roundness.  When installing them in the hull, I used this out of roundness to compensate for the out of roundness of the tube by orienting the rings so the two forces counteracted themselves.  There were many times I need to jack the hull inside, from side to side, as the frames were being installed also, but the result is my hull is no more then 1/16 out of round.
 
There is a frame in the location of the conning tower but part of it is removed.  The framing keeps the hull plate from deviating from true roundness so any place there is nothing to support the hull plate is potentially a place for the hull to flatten out just enough for a catastrophic failure by implosion.  You need to keep the hull round and hold it there with framing.  The conning tower reinforcement ring intersects the one frame.  The terminated ends of that frame, must be welded securely, and maybe even reinforced, to the conning tower reinforcement ring to carry the forces through the intersection of these two pieces.  The result is,  even though the hull in compromised by the hole cut in for the conning tower, it isn't compromised in it's structural integrity in that location.
 
You should be able to see some of what your questioning in the pics of my Persistence and also Johns Lake Diver. 
If you want to see more, contact me off list and I'll attach you a pic or two.
 
Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: Myles Hall
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inner / Outer support ribs.

Dan,
 
   The point I never considered was using the rings to force the hull into roundness.  I can definately see where this would be easier when putting them on the inside as they could be pounded / hammered / tapped into place, spot welded, and then secured when all was well.  That answers another question in that the rings are to be pre made and not welded onto the pressure hull when building them.  In that way, the roundness of the rings could be made true before installing.  As for attaching things to the rings inside the hull, is it safe to drill 1/4" holes for bolts or is that comprimising the integretity of the ring too much ? ...or would welding mounting brackets to the rings and then drilling the holes be preferable ?
 
   On the K350, does the design just eliminate the ring where the tower is, the tower collar providing the strength in that area ?
 
   Thanks for making my mind up for me Dan.
 
Myles.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan H.
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inner / Outer support ribs.

Myles,
 
A K-350 has ribs spaced 12 inches apart, and at the ends where the hull tube meets the end caps, they are 10 inches apart leaving two inches of hull tube sticking past the last frames to weld the end caps to. 
 
True, the frame would be easier to apply to the outside of the hull, for convenience of working, but it's easier to spring the hull into better roundness when working from the inside.  No rolled tube is perfect round.   You have to work it as your installing the framing. 
 
Ribs on the outside give you more places for corrosion to attack, but do increase the inside room.  Ribs on the inside cramp the space in the sub, but are a convenient place to clamp things that you want to add later on, without welding on the finished sub hull.
 
Dan H. 
----- Original Message -----
From: Myles Hall
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 6:11 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Inner / Outer support ribs.

I understand that support ribs offer the same strength increase whether they are on the inside or outside of the pressure hull.  As I am planning on adding fairing, I am also considering puting the ribs on the outside to free up interior space.  Is this a good idea ?  In other words, is it easier to install the ribs when they are on the outside ?  Are the ribs pre-made and then welded on or built right onto the pressure hull ?  I can't seem to figure out the ribs, how they are made, and the best way to install them.  My pressure hull is of a similar design as the K350 36" x 1/4 " x 8'.  I am considering a rib spacing of 18".
 
Myles.