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Re: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New underwater breathing device
Hi, well,
There are lots of things here:
The solubillity of air increases with temperature and pressure, so at
25 deg, and at 200 m where divers don't dare to go, the solubility is
huge. At a mere 30m, the solubillity is about 0.091 grams of air per kilo
of water (fresh.. I'm not going to be retentive about salt water right
now). So, at 2000 litres, that comes to
182 grams of air, which is about 140 litres at sealevel, but since we are
at 30 m, this comes to about 35 litres. This will do for about 7 breaths,
or about twenty seconds for a normal (slightly porky and unfit) adult at
rest.
At 200m, the solubility is 0.46 g/kg. so at 2000 L/min, that is 920 grams,
or 707 litres@sealevel=33 litres a@200m. We're competing linear functions
against eachother,so, in theory, I guess the potential bolume of air in
water is constant.. other factors come into play I guess. I think the flow
rate needs to be double, or triple of 2000L/min (which is only half a
litre per sec anyhow).
So unless you have the metabolism of an elephant, and breathe only half
the rate of the rest of humanity, this might need some serious magic to
work at a comfortable rate.
The other factors are the efficiency of the system, I've assumed 100%,
also, the salt in sea water would decrease the solubiity of air in the
water, and I'm sure that the diffusion of air in the water is a pretty
negative function of depth, i.e. even though the solubility goes up, the
amount of air getting to 200m might be kind of low, they've estimated
about 1.5% of air (I assume by volume) at 200m, which is 30 litres
of air in 2000 litres of water.. also about 6-7 breaths@100% efficiency
I think that since the fish are ok, we can probably assume that a humans
physiology will cope with the extracted gas ok.. however, I'm not sure
that I would want to get too close to a volcanic region??. hot and
sulphury!?
So, I would love to see this thing work!, a big in your face to henry,
boyle and so on. I love it when reality screws up the theory!
Go Alan Bodner!
EM.
On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 drewacard@charter.net wrote:
> here is the Patent from European Patent Office
> http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?IDX=EP1343683
> i just downloaded the pdf from that page
> it forces 2000 liters about 530 gallins of water through the device per minute. this seems like a lot of water.
> Andy
>
>
> From: Ray Keefer <psubs2001@yahoo.com>
> Date: 2005/06/08 Wed AM 10:32:44 CDT
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New underwater breathing device
>
> Hi,
>
> I am curious, how much power would this system need?
> The centifuge would have to be spun. Pumps? How does
> it make sure the extracted gases have enough oxygen in
> a healthy proportion. Is there a gas seperator and
> mixer? Is there actual working hardware?
>
> Regards,
> Ray
>
> --- drewacard@charter.net wrote:
>
> > Alan Izhar-Bodner, an Israeli inventor, has
> > developed a way for divers to breathe underwater
> > without cumbersome oxygen tanks. His apparatus makes
> > use of the air that is dissolved in water, just like
> > fish do.
> >
> >
> > (From Breathe like a fish!)
> > The system uses the "Henry Law" which states that
> > the amount of gas that can be dissolved in a liquid
> > is proportional to the pressure on the liquid. Raise
> > the pressure - more gas can be dissolved in the
> > liquid. Decrease the pressure - gas dissolved in the
> > liquid releases the gas. This is exactly what
> > happens when you open a can of soda; carbon dioxide
> > gas is dissolved in the liquid and is under pressure
> > in the can. Open the can, releasing the pressure,
> > and the gas fizzes out.
> >
> > Bodner's system apparently uses a centrifuge to
> > lower pressure in part of a small amount of seawater
> > taken into the system; dissolved gas is extracted.
> > The patent abstract reads:
> >
> >
> > A self-contained open-circuit breathing apparatus
> > for use within a body of water naturally containing
> > dissolved air. The apparatus is adapted to provide
> > breathable air. The apparatus comprises an inlet
> > means for extracting a quantity of water from the
> > body of water. It further comprises a separator for
> > separating the dissolved air from the quantity of
> > water, thereby obtaining the breathable air. The
> > apparatus further comprises a first outlet means for
> > expelling the separated water back into the body of
> > water, and a second outlet means for removing the
> > breathable air and supplying it for breathing. The
> > air is supplied so as to enable it to be expelled
> > back into the body of water after it has been
> > breathed
> >
> >
> http://www.livescience.com/scienceoffiction/050606_breathe_underwater.html
> >
> > looks amazing.
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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