[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New underwater breathing device
Hi,
One useful feature I can think of is that processing
2000L/min would create a nice suction at the inlet and
a nice exhaust flow at the outlet. Have the inlet at
the top and the outlet at the bottom of a backpack
like device and you have a nice combined air source
and scuba tow in one package.
Regards,
Ray
--- EM <emuller@naic.edu> wrote:
> Hi, well,
> There are lots of things here:
> The solubillity of air increases with temperature
> and pressure, so at
> 25 deg, and at 200 m where divers don't dare to go,
> the solubility is
> huge. At a mere 30m, the solubillity is about 0.091
> grams of air per kilo
> of water (fresh.. I'm not going to be retentive
> about salt water right
> now). So, at 2000 litres, that comes to
> 182 grams of air, which is about 140 litres at
> sealevel, but since we are
> at 30 m, this comes to about 35 litres. This will do
> for about 7 breaths,
> or about twenty seconds for a normal (slightly porky
> and unfit) adult at
> rest.
>
> At 200m, the solubility is 0.46 g/kg. so at 2000
> L/min, that is 920 grams,
> or 707 litres@sealevel=33 litres a@200m. We're
> competing linear functions
> against eachother,so, in theory, I guess the
> potential bolume of air in
> water is constant.. other factors come into play I
> guess. I think the flow
> rate needs to be double, or triple of 2000L/min
> (which is only half a
> litre per sec anyhow).
>
> So unless you have the metabolism of an elephant,
> and breathe only half
> the rate of the rest of humanity, this might need
> some serious magic to
> work at a comfortable rate.
>
> The other factors are the efficiency of the system,
> I've assumed 100%,
> also, the salt in sea water would decrease the
> solubiity of air in the
> water, and I'm sure that the diffusion of air in the
> water is a pretty
> negative function of depth, i.e. even though the
> solubility goes up, the
> amount of air getting to 200m might be kind of low,
> they've estimated
> about 1.5% of air (I assume by volume) at 200m,
> which is 30 litres
> of air in 2000 litres of water.. also about 6-7
> breaths@100% efficiency
>
> I think that since the fish are ok, we can probably
> assume that a humans
> physiology will cope with the extracted gas ok..
> however, I'm not sure
> that I would want to get too close to a volcanic
> region??. hot and
> sulphury!?
>
> So, I would love to see this thing work!, a big in
> your face to henry,
> boyle and so on. I love it when reality screws up
> the theory!
>
> Go Alan Bodner!
>
>
> EM.
>
>
> On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 drewacard@charter.net wrote:
>
> > here is the Patent from European Patent Office
> > http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?IDX=EP1343683
> > i just downloaded the pdf from that page
> > it forces 2000 liters about 530 gallins of water
> through the device per minute. this seems like a lot
> of water.
> > Andy
> >
> >
> > From: Ray Keefer <psubs2001@yahoo.com>
> > Date: 2005/06/08 Wed AM 10:32:44 CDT
> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New underwater
> breathing device
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am curious, how much power would this system
> need?
> > The centifuge would have to be spun. Pumps? How
> does
> > it make sure the extracted gases have enough
> oxygen in
> > a healthy proportion. Is there a gas seperator and
> > mixer? Is there actual working hardware?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ray
> >
> > --- drewacard@charter.net wrote:
> >
> > > Alan Izhar-Bodner, an Israeli inventor, has
> > > developed a way for divers to breathe underwater
> > > without cumbersome oxygen tanks. His apparatus
> makes
> > > use of the air that is dissolved in water, just
> like
> > > fish do.
> > >
> > >
> > > (From Breathe like a fish!)
> > > The system uses the "Henry Law" which states
> that
> > > the amount of gas that can be dissolved in a
> liquid
> > > is proportional to the pressure on the liquid.
> Raise
> > > the pressure - more gas can be dissolved in the
> > > liquid. Decrease the pressure - gas dissolved in
> the
> > > liquid releases the gas. This is exactly what
> > > happens when you open a can of soda; carbon
> dioxide
> > > gas is dissolved in the liquid and is under
> pressure
> > > in the can. Open the can, releasing the
> pressure,
> > > and the gas fizzes out.
> > >
> > > Bodner's system apparently uses a centrifuge to
> > > lower pressure in part of a small amount of
> seawater
> > > taken into the system; dissolved gas is
> extracted.
> > > The patent abstract reads:
> > >
> > >
> > > A self-contained open-circuit breathing
> apparatus
> > > for use within a body of water naturally
> containing
> > > dissolved air. The apparatus is adapted to
> provide
> > > breathable air. The apparatus comprises an inlet
> > > means for extracting a quantity of water from
> the
> > > body of water. It further comprises a separator
> for
> > > separating the dissolved air from the quantity
> of
> > > water, thereby obtaining the breathable air. The
> > > apparatus further comprises a first outlet means
> for
> > > expelling the separated water back into the body
> of
> > > water, and a second outlet means for removing
> the
> > > breathable air and supplying it for breathing.
> The
> > > air is supplied so as to enable it to be
> expelled
> > > back into the body of water after it has been
> > > breathed
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.livescience.com/scienceoffiction/050606_breathe_underwater.html
> > >
> > > looks amazing.
> > > Andy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
************************************************************************
> > >
> >
>
************************************************************************
> > >
> >
>
************************************************************************
> > > The personal submersibles mailing list complies
> with
> > > the US Federal
> > > CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address
> appears in
> > > our database
> > > because either you, or someone you know,
> requested
> > > you receive messages
> > > from our organization.
> > >
> > > If you want to be removed from this mailing list
> > > simply click on the
> > > link below or send a blank email message to:
> > > removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database
because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
from our organization.
If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
link below or send a blank email message to:
removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
our server receiving your request.
PSUBS.ORG
PO Box 311
Weare, NH 03281
603-529-1100
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************