Vance, this post is a saver! I haven't towed Snoopy yet, but I ultimately want to head to Florida with her and given the geography, it seems long tows are unavoidable. I can see what you're talking about with the burping effect. Even in quiet waters, any rocking of the boat whatsoever results in a big burp and she settles lower in the water. I'd probably end up being towed half-submerged unless I blew air into the MBTs every second wave. Given how the MBT shells are affixed to the steel framing, I can't see an easy way to put "lids" under them. All I can see is making entirely new MBTs that wrapped under the framing, with flood holes on the centerline. Is that what you have in mind? Have you actually built new MBTs for your boat? Maybe several K boat owners might make this a common effort and share the molds. I presume a K-250 MBT is too small for a K-350? thanks, Alec -----Original Message----- From: VBra676539@aol.com [mailto:VBra676539@aol.com] Sent: Wed 12/22/2004 10:47 AM To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org Cc: Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub building business In a message dated 12/21/2004 6:41:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, mongo14904@yahoo.com writes: Hi all I have been thinking about looking for investors To invest K-sub production. I put it to the group for opinions...does anyone think that there is small or large demand for K-subs in the world. I am currently doing a market ability study for this. And would appreciate any input or ideas. John Merry Christmas John, I'm not sure if there is a market for Model T submersibles, as George had a whale of a time but didn't make much money. There are some wonderful upgrades, however, which might let you modify the house-that-George-built into something more modern. There is a lot of interest out there, but the prices are too steep for ready-made subs. P. Nuytton built Sea Urchin in an effort to create a $50 K sub, and I think it turned out iffy (price-wise), and he hasn't pursued it as far as I know. Maybe he will chime in and tell us why. The design is pretty cool, and substantially lighter than the K-models (not much over half), so that might be something to think about, as well. Off-the-shelf thrusters (I've seen modified big-frame Minn Kotas that held to nearly 1200 feet in a test tank, and would work like a charm at 350--for less than a thousand bucks), better motor controllers, package lights, larger viewports (6 in the conning tower, I would think, or an acrylic cylinder in place of the steel one--and a Jago-style dome in the bow). Maybe go to external ribs, rather than internal. For all practical purposes, it won't make any difference strength-wise, and will be a lot easier on the elbows. Keep it simple, of course. That would be the key to it. I prefer the option of being able to sit up in the conn, or lay down at the forward viewport depending on circumstances. The Sea Urchin is smaller, so you might look into what would happen if you lengthened the K-sub hull and reduced it to, say, thirty inches from thirty-six. I think you will also need some kind of manipulator option. I've got all the data for a simple package, internal electro-hydraulic unit with small solenoids, and a simple little Perry-style three or four function manip would do it, or even one of Dr. Phil's pneumatic three-ways like he used on the Sea Urchin. And I hate George's ballast tanks. The open skirt design makes the subs ridiculously difficult to tow without stopping all the time to squirt more air into the tanks. Keep the manual controls, but the subs are much easier to handle when cruising with some sort of rudder. I'm installing the tilting thrusters on a common shaft forward of the main hull, driven by the right-side thruster penetration by a simple lever. They have reversing circuits now, and should improve close maneuvering (although I'm afraid that I may, ultimately, need a lateral thruster up front as well). Will fix the main motor on the centerline aft and operate a rudder behind it with the left side (also by lever), rather than trying to horse the whole thing around. We'll see how that goes. If I ever build again, I'll go with fixed thrusters and steer with motor controls, rather than levers. Look Ma, no handles!!!! Anyway, I'd love to see the subs active again. I hope you will keep us up to date on how the polling goes. Vance
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