Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub building business

["Dan H." <jmachine@adelphia.net>]

Alec,

I'm pretty sure the K-250 and 350 MBT's are the same.

You could add  to the MBT sides by adding some fiberglass to what you now
have but there is no need to add a complete bottom.  If you add about four
inches to each side, and maybe turn it inward a little also, you will
eliminate the burping and still be able to get your head and hands up under
the MBT to get at the bolts that secure it to the frame.  It seldom burps
from the extreme front or rear as rolling has no affect on it there.  Also,
if you don't add any skirting to the pointy ends of the MBT's you won't over
fill them.  Mine still burp out at the ends to indicate full of air but
seldom burp from rolling action.

Merry Christmas,
Dan H.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alec Smyth" <Alec.Smyth@compuware.com>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 11:10 AM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub building business


Vance, this post is a saver! I haven't towed Snoopy yet, but I ultimately
want to head to Florida with her and given the geography, it seems long tows
are unavoidable. I can see what you're talking about with the burping
effect. Even in quiet waters, any rocking of the boat whatsoever results in
a big burp and she settles lower in the water. I'd probably end up being
towed half-submerged unless I blew air into the MBTs every second wave.

Given how the MBT shells are affixed to the steel framing, I can't see an
easy way to put "lids" under them. All I can see is making entirely new MBTs
that wrapped under the framing, with flood holes on the centerline. Is that
what you have in mind? Have you actually built new MBTs for your boat?

Maybe several K boat owners might make this a common effort and share the
molds. I presume a K-250 MBT is too small for a K-350?

thanks,

Alec




-----Original Message-----
From: VBra676539@aol.com [mailto:VBra676539@aol.com]
Sent: Wed 12/22/2004 10:47 AM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Cc:
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Sub building business

In a message dated 12/21/2004 6:41:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mongo14904@yahoo.com writes:

Hi all
I have been thinking about looking for investors
To invest K-sub production. I put it to the group for
opinions...does anyone think that there is small or
large
demand for K-subs in the world. I am currently doing a
market ability study for this. And would  appreciate
any input or ideas.
John



Merry Christmas John,

I'm not sure if there is a market for Model T submersibles, as George had a
whale of a time but didn't make much money. There are some wonderful
upgrades,
however, which might let you modify the house-that-George-built into
something
more modern. There is a lot of interest out there, but the prices are too
steep for ready-made subs. P. Nuytton built Sea Urchin in an effort to
create a
$50 K sub, and I think it turned out iffy (price-wise), and he hasn't
pursued
it as far as I know. Maybe he will chime in and tell us why. The design is
pretty cool, and substantially lighter than the K-models (not much over
half), so
that might be something to think about, as well.

Off-the-shelf thrusters (I've seen modified big-frame Minn Kotas that held
to
nearly 1200 feet in a test tank, and would work like a charm at 350--for
less
than a thousand bucks), better motor controllers, package lights, larger
viewports (6 in the conning tower, I would think, or an acrylic cylinder in
place
of the steel one--and a Jago-style dome in the bow).

Maybe go to external ribs, rather than internal. For all practical purposes,
it won't make any difference strength-wise, and will be a lot easier on the
elbows. Keep it simple, of course. That would be the key to it. I prefer the
option of being able to sit up in the conn, or lay down at the forward
viewport
depending on circumstances. The Sea Urchin is smaller, so you might look
into
what would happen if you lengthened the K-sub hull and reduced it to, say,
thirty inches from thirty-six.

I think you will also need some kind of manipulator option. I've got all the
data for a simple package, internal electro-hydraulic unit with small
solenoids, and a simple little Perry-style three or four function manip
would do it,
or even one of Dr. Phil's pneumatic three-ways like he used on the Sea
Urchin.

And I hate George's ballast tanks. The open skirt design makes the subs
ridiculously difficult to tow without stopping all the time to squirt more
air into
the tanks.

Keep the manual controls, but the subs are much easier to handle when
cruising with some sort of rudder. I'm installing the tilting thrusters on a
common
shaft forward of the main hull, driven by the right-side thruster
penetration
by a simple lever. They have reversing circuits now, and should improve
close
maneuvering (although I'm afraid that I may, ultimately, need a lateral
thruster up front as well). Will fix the main motor on the centerline aft
and operate
a rudder behind it with the left side (also by lever), rather than trying to
horse the whole thing around. We'll see how that goes.

If I ever build again, I'll go with fixed thrusters and steer with motor
controls, rather than levers. Look Ma, no handles!!!! Anyway, I'd love to
see the
subs active again. I hope you will keep us up to date on how the polling
goes.

Vance








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