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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS - 3/17.1.1 - Normal Ballast System

To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS - 3/17.1.1 - Normal Ballast System
From: "Dan H." <jmachine@adelphia.net>
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 07:46:32 -0400
References: <BAY7-F104DTUu11eQxO00006650@hotmail.com> <009701c433c1$948538c0$a68ca844@FAMILYROOM> <409B2C3A.20604@vcn.com>
Reply-to: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sender: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
I meant the missiles that pop out of the water and up into the air, what
ever they're called.  You got the picture.  ;-)

Dan H.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Coalbunny" <coalbunny@vcn.com>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 2:27 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS - 3/17.1.1 - Normal Ballast System


> Dan, excellent post!  FYI- SAM is surface to air.  You mean ICBM,
> correct?  I know the navy launched cruise missiles frim underwater, but
> I think they did SAMs.
> Carl
>
>
> Dan H. wrote:
>
> > Pierre,
> >
> > As much as you may want to, it's almost impossible to build a small home
> > built P-SUB to meet all the specifications called for in ABS, PVHO, the
> > Coast Guard and the like.  Try your best to meet as many of their
> > requirements and look very closely at the ones you can't meet.  Some of
the
> > regulations aren't a must for the way we will be using our small subs.
> >
> > ( I except a bunch of flask to this message, but it's reality.)
> >
> > My tiny K-350 is a world apart from Alvin and other small subs of it's
kind.
> > My sub won't hold a candle to it as far as it's capabilities and uses
and
> > can't be expected to hold a candle to it in safety features either.
> >
> > Please don't get me wrong.  I am VERY safety conscious, but if I'm
putting
> > around in my little yellow toy at the bottom of a lake with a maximum
dept
> > of 60 feet, I'm not to concerned about a three day life support system.
> > Heck, if I'm not home for supper, my wife will have the divers and a tow
> > truck there to drag me out before the dinner gets cold.
> >
> > Seriously, with a dive plan, my surface support people will have the
dive
> > rescue in the water in no more then an hours in any lakes in my area.
When
> > I dive somewhere else, I'll surely outfit my sub accordingly.
> >
> > Plan safe, build safe, dive safe but don't get to hung up on standards
that
> > you don't need to be concerned with.
> >
> > If you won't be in a body of water that ever gets swells over a foot, is
> > three feet of freeboard really required?
> >
> > On another note. You mentioned that you have 800 pounds of drop weight.
> > That's a LOT OF WEIGHT!  If you let 800 pounds drop all at once you'll
break
> > the surface like a SAM missile!  I hope you plan to drop in stages as
you
> > require.
> >
> > I don't know why a drop weight wouldn't be a secondary ballast release.
It
> > would get you positive buoyant.
> >
> > Dan H.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pierre Poulin" <pipo305@hotmail.com>
> > To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 1:03 PM
> > Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS - 3/17.1.1 - Normal Ballast System
> >
> >
> >
> >>Is drop-weight a method to deballast?
> >>
> >>It certainly don't require electricity!
> >>
> >>Pierre
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: "Marten Liebster" <mliebster@tbteam.com>
> >>>Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >>>To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> >>>Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS - 3/17.1.1 - Normal Ballast System
> >>>Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 12:12:43 -0400
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Apparently my smiley didn't have the intended effect. I received, what
I
> >>>consider to be, a semi-nasty direct email and now this posting.
> >>>
> >>>It is because I respect for the knowledge contained by those here that
I
> >>>ask
> >>>such questions. I'm not demanding respect since I've read through
several
> >>>chapters of a handbook. Respect given to a person is attained by what
EF
> >>>Hutton used to say on their commercials, by earning it.
> >>>
> >>>I know that I'm a newbie. I know that there are many things that I
don't
> >>>know. I am very humble in regards to my sub (and many other fields as
> >
> > well)
> >
> >>>knowledge. But as far as I can tell this is the best place to ask
> >
> > specific
> >
> >>>questions to ones who have that knowledge. In fact the About Us page on
> >>>psubs.org says "PSUBS.ORG was organized to promote and encourage the
> >>>discussion, designing, building, certifiying, owning and use of
personal
> >>>submersibles".
> >>>
> >>>I hope that I can garner some respect for my desire to learn and to
> >
> > safely
> >
> >>>and properly build a psub. Perhaps over the years I will be able to
gain
> >>>some respect as a submariner.
> >>>
> >>>Back to my original post:
> >>>How do you deballast? & Do you have two independent means of doing
this?
> >>>
> >>>By seeing how others are doing this, I learn. If someone successfully
is
> >>>using a similar method to my design, then that's some confirmation of
my
> >>>design and progress. Obviously my design would still need to be tested.
> >
> > If
> >
> >>>someone uses a method that I couldn't conceive of, I learn about that
and
> >>>see if it would work better.
> >>>
> >>>I hope I have clarified myself and explained my method of madness!
> >>>
> >>>Marten
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >>>[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Pierre
Poulin
> >>>Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:44 AM
> >>>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >>>Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS - 3/17.1.1 - Normal Ballast System
> >>>
> >>>Marten, I'm sorry to say that respect don't come by reading a book...
> >>>
> >>>But you still have my respect anyway!
> >>>
> >>>Pierre
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>From: "Marten Liebster" <mliebster@tbteam.com>
> >>>>Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >>>>To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> >>>>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS - 3/17.1.1 - Normal Ballast System
> >>>>Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 10:23:51 -0400
> >>>>
> >>>>Gentlemen and scholars,
> >>>>
> >>>>Quoting ABS handbook in section 3/17.1.1 (Normal Ballast System):
> >>>>"Each manned unit is to be fitted with a ballast system capable of
> >>>>providing normal ascent and descent and necessary trim adjustments.
> >>>>Ballast tanks that are subjected to internal or external pressure are
> >>>>to comply with the requirements of Section 6. Two independent means of
> >>>>deballasting are to be provided; one is to be operable with no
electric
> >>>>power available."
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>In my initial designs I have only accommodated for 1 means of
> >>>>deballasting, using valves and compressed air. I assume this is the
way
> >>>>most psubs are set-up.
> >>>>
> >>>>How do you deballast?
> >>>>
> >>>>Do you have two independent means of doing this?
> >>>>
> >>>>Thanks for info
> >>>>Marten "the ever-curious" Liebster
> >>>>
> >>>>PS Hopefully I'll start getting some respect - as I have started to
> >>>>read through the ABS book :-)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
>
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> --
> "By the side of religion, by the side of science, by the side of poetry,
> stands natural beauty.  Not as a rival to these, but as the common
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Follow-Ups:
- Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS - 3/17.1.1 - Normal Ballast System
  - From: Erik Muller <emuller@naic.edu>
- Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS - 3/17.1.1 - Normal Ballast System
  - From: Coalbunny <coalbunny@vcn.com>
References:
- RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS - 3/17.1.1 - Normal Ballast System
  - From: "Pierre Poulin" <pipo305@hotmail.com>
- Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS - 3/17.1.1 - Normal Ballast System
  - From: "Dan H." <jmachine@adelphia.net>
- Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ABS - 3/17.1.1 - Normal Ballast System
  - From: Coalbunny <coalbunny@vcn.com>
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