[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reserved buoyancy



Grrrr..
Marius,
I KNOW the principals involved!, I am a physicist!
Displacement is totally decoupled from the TYPE of the fluid, it is the boyant force which is different and which is dependant on the density! There just seemed to be a typo in Carsens original post where there was a 'm^3' where I would have expected 'kg'! humph. I might seem like it sometimes.. but I like to think I am not excessively thick ALL the time...!
sigh.

But thanks for that fun experiment, I will show my neice.
EM.



Greeff, Marius (M) wrote:

I posted a photo of this on moki.

Regards,
Marius

-----Original Message-----
From: Greeff, Marius (M) Sent: 11 March 2004 07:39
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reserved buoyancy

Thanks Carsten,
The mid section where my conning tower is located is 21mm thick steel,
grade of steel I am not sure of so drop testing will be no1 on list of
tests. This already with the first section of coning tower displaces
close to 1 m3 and weighs 660Kg. This section is 1.35m long. Adding the
rest of the hull and conning tower will take it to 1.85 m3. Here I will
use 1/4" thick steel where view ports will be placed. I would like my
buoyancy correct on paper to cancel out any other parts still to come
like the motors and battery pods. I will ammend my design to a point
where it will work before I make another hasty buy.

PS. Erik Muller, fun experiment: raw egg floats in salt water and sinks
in fresh water.

Kind regards,
Marius

-----Original Message-----
From: Carsten Standfuss [mailto:MerlinSub@t-online.de] Sent: 10 March 2004 10:35
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Reserved buoyancy

Yes thats right - the body displace stil the same 1cm of something. But the density of something is different - and there with on a planet with constant gravitation - the lift force - bouancy. A sub of a volume of excat 1 m3 and a weight of 1 t or 1000 kg in freshwater with a density of 1,0 will just be in dive trim. It displace excat 1000 kg of water.
Saltwater has an higher density = about 1,025 t per m3 (or 1025 kg)
So you can build the sub 0,025 t or 25 kg heavier and it will be still
dive trim. Put your 1m3 sub in mercury with a density of 13,595 t per m3 and you have to add 12,595 t of lead or something into your sub before it dive.
If you dive with a 1m3 and 1 t heavy sub in petrol tank to inspect a big
oil raffinere from Shell.. it will sunk strait to the bottom of the tank
-> Petrol = 0,68 -0,75 t per m3 means negative lift of 0,25-0,32 t

Real sample : Euronauts weight is about 57 ts. Baltic sea has about 1,000 t per m3 density. North Sea has about 1,025 t per m3 density. If I leave the baltic on dive station via the Kategatt way - the lift of the water will increase of 1,025 x 57 = to 58.425 t
and the boat will be force on the surface with a lift of 1,425 t - the
weight of a Kittredge size sub..
It is a bad idear to dive with a militar high sea sub from the South
Atlantic into the Amazonas river delta in dived condition..
A 8000 ts boats "lost" about 195 ts of lift -> bouancy ;-)
Sorry about my poor english language.. Carsten

Erik Muller schrieb:
Hello Carsten,
I am just following up on that calc.
I am unclear why the displacement is different for salt and fresh
water.
I know that the boyant force will be different, but surely if I put a
1cm cube of metal into a cup of liquid, I still displace 1cm,
regardless
of anything else disolved., Do you mean to write that the boyant force
is 1 5323 kg (i.e. rather than  m^3) in fresh and 1 5706 kg in sea?
Thanks Carsten,
EM.

Carsten Standfuss wrote:

Show us the general weight calculation of your boat here..

I estimate that :

A.1) Estimate bouancy calculation :

0,921 by 0,921 x 3,1415/4 x 2,3 m = 1,5323 m3 displacement in
freshwater
(1,5706 in seawater) without endcaps and outside displacement parts.

B.1) Estimate weight calculation :

hmm...
Which tickness has the pipe ?  Mild steel or stainless ?

regards Carsten


Steven Mills schrieb:


Ouch ! Marius,

What grade and standard of steel did you get?

--Steve

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:58:33 +0200 "Greeff, Marius (M)"
<Marius.Greeff@sasol.com> writes:


Howdy,
I think I bought the wrong piece of steel to start my pressure hull
with. I end up calculating about 700kg buoyancy reserved on the
design before motors, batteries and all the rest are added. I wish
to get this right before I buy the rest of the steel needed to
build. My design have the hull already 2.3m long and a diameter of
921mm(36").

Kind Regards
Marius



----------------------------------------------------------------------
---
NOTICE: Please note that this eMail, and the contents thereof,
is subject to the standard Sasol eMail disclaimer which may be
found
at:
http://www.sasol.com/disclaimer


If you cannot access the disclaimer through the URL attached and
you
wish
to receive a copy thereof please send an eMail to
disclaimer@sasol.com

This email was scanned and cleared by NetIQ MailMarshal.



----------------------------------------------------------------------
---
________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!






------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
NOTICE: Please note that this eMail, and the contents thereof, is subject to the standard Sasol eMail disclaimer which may be found at:

http://www.sasol.com/disclaimer


If you cannot access the disclaimer through the URL attached and you
wish to receive a copy thereof please send an eMail to disclaimer@sasol.com

This email was scanned and cleared by NetIQ MailMarshal.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTICE: Please note that this eMail, and the contents thereof, is subject to the standard Sasol eMail disclaimer which may be found at: http://www.sasol.com/disclaimer If you cannot access the disclaimer through the URL attached and you wish to receive a copy thereof please send an eMail to disclaimer@sasol.com

This email was scanned and cleared by NetIQ MailMarshal.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------