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[PSUBS-MAILIST] Self introduction leading to construction!
This might be the best place on the net to find sub enthusiasts and possibly
even some good advice, but the net is for amateurs. This is shown by those
who post messages telling everyone what they want to do and in a sense are
wanting all their questions answered in one place. This list can answer
maybe 1% of all the real questions needing to be addressed by someone who is
really going to build a sub ( I guess I'm talking 1-atm, and beyond scuba).
An engineering school with a good reference library and people in the
research submersible business are where most of the answers will come from.
This of course, is dependant on the individuals personal ability to identify
and solve problems in a multidiscipline area. This is also where the trades
and engineering have to meet and its either, I will learn and become
proficient or I will find someone who is. My personal objective is to do the
whole ball of wax. Time, money, experience and brains ect. are factors that
have to be juggled and humbly defining your self resources is maybe a first
real step forward. Having or obtaining a proficient mechanical aptitude in
welding and machining, in my opinion, is the second and electronics the
third. Pressure vessel design is also in there somewhere. You build one sub
but there are 10,000 details.
Adam
----- Original Message -----
From: "Coalbunny" <coalbunny@vcn.com>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Self introduction
> Gail, the archives doesn't tell the whole story, nor can it ever tell
> the whole story. A lot is said here, yes. But there's more to a post
> than just words. It's the timing, the groups frame of mind at the time,
> ther's a lot.
>
> And I'm gonna be blunt- we ARE the BEST. period. If you disagree, feel
> free to share with us who is better. But NEVER knock this fine group.
> To me it IS the best group around. PSUB or not.
> Carl
>
>
> Gail Paleka wrote:
>
> > Mike, Steve,
> >
> > Hope I didn't hurt your feelings. I just wanted to put your commentary
> > into context.
> >
> > I did check my facts; they are based on what I read in the archive.
> > Thanks for pointing out that I am correct. Despite whatever projects
> > you say you may have built in the past, by your own admission you never
> > actually operated any of them, so your involvement with submarines is
> > still limited to exercises in theory and is unsupported by any practical
> > experience.
> >
> > Mike, as far as "back engineering 19th century designs", I suppose you
> > mean Simon Lake's Argonaut Junior. I've read about it in the archive.
> > I think I also read you've been exploring submarine design for something
> > like twenty years (?), but haven't haven't actually gotten around to
> > building one, or at least not the Argonaut Junior. When were you
> > planning on starting? It would seem to me that fifteen or twenty years
> > spent contemplating something that had never come to fruition would be
> > an indicator that perhaps one was better suited for something else?
> >
> > And Steve, it's wonderful that Psubs is frequented by physicists,
> > archaeologists, astronomers, psychologists, and divers. On a website
> > dealing with those subjects, I'm sure their advice would be most
> > welcome. Psubs is declaredly about the "design, building, and
> > operating" of personal submersibles, though.
> >
> > I agree the internet is a wonderful place to get information, but I
> > think the information should be reliable and come from people with hard
> > experience. Giving advice on how to build subs when you haven't proven
> > yourself yet is irresponsible, and a lot of you guys here do that all
> > the time.
> >
> > After reading through the archive, I see there are a few experienced
> > people still here occasionally. I feel I can rely on what they have to
> > say. But I also see there have been a lot of other experienced people
> > who once participated on this website, (and in fact provided the bulk of
> > the information available at Psubs), but no longer do. In their
> > absence, I see a continuing cycle of new arrivals come and go, trying to
> > take their place as information sources to others wanting to build
> > submarines, mostly repackaging what has been said before, and passing it
> > off as their own, sometimes inaccurately. As an illustrative analogy,
> > that's like a guy who has only seen war movies trying to tell other
> > people what actual combat is like. And so, the credibility of this
> > website suffers.
> >
> > On a positive note, I will say that, in recent days, I have seen a shift
> > in this group from silliness to a greater focus on technical
> > discussion. That's good. But it's the inexperience level of those
> > offering technical advice I find questionable.
> >
> > Honestly, I think most of the people in this group are more serious
> > about socializing and furthering this website as a visible presence than
> > they are about actually building and operating submersibles. From what
> > I've read, that has led to a split between experienced and
> > non-experienced psubbers, and as a result, most of the experienced guys
> > are gone, and what remains are predominantly unexperienced people more
> > intent on camaraderie than construction. That's my opinion based on a
> > study of the archive
> >
> > I offer this as constructive criticism aimed at improving what I see are
> > flaws in our group, not criticism for criticism's sake alone. If your
> > feelings are hurt by what I say, I'm sorry.
> >
> > If you guys want to talk about submarines, that's fine. But please
> > don't tell newcomers that you are "the best" or "the only" source of
> > information about subs, because you're not.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Gail
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael B Holt <tlohm@juno.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 02:12:18 -0800 (PST) Gail Paleka writes:
> >
> > >
> > >Welcome to Psubs. Here you will find people very willing to give
> > >advice about submarines. What Carl, Steve, and Mike didn't tell
you,
> > >though, is that they haven't actually built a submarine yet. Just
> > >thought you should know so you can put their advice into proper
> > >perspective.
> >
> > Check your facts, first, Gail. I built a Markham-style boat
> > that never got used due to a medical problem I developed. I've
> > reverse-engineered a pair of very old submarines (19th -century)
> > and I've designed (but never built) a gliding ambient diver's
> > vehicle. No one ever asked about this, so there was no reason
> > to talk about it.
> >
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
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> --
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