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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Please save us Gail
Gail,
I don't know you, or anything about you, BUT who are
you to:
put a "commentary into context"?
Talk to Mike in that manner?
Tell someone "that perhaps one was better suited for
something else?"??? WOW IS THAT RUDE.
Put the group down.
I have been contacted outside the group by several
talented, experienced people who have built subs
(well-known subs).
"And Steve, it's wonderful that Psubs is frequented
> by physicists, archaeologists, astronomers,
> psychologists, and divers."
.....and recently, one pretentious bi---.
Sorry didn't go off-list, but I was afraid I wouldn't
be so polite.
Oh, but I hope I didn't offend anyone, just thought I
would "offer this as constructive criticism ".
Don't waste the groups time by responding on-list -
Feel free to call me anytime...
Sincerely,
David Cutajar
DJC Engineering
(586)484-3232
P.S. Please bestow your vast knowledge and grand
resources upon us poor saps and let us know the web
address of a better PSub site that we can only hope to
emulate -if you deem us worthy of course....
--- Gail Paleka <gailpaleka@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Mike, Steve,
>
> Hope I didn't hurt your feelings. I just wanted to
> put your commentary into context.
>
> I did check my facts; they are based on what I read
> in the archive. Thanks for pointing out that I am
> correct. Despite whatever projects you say you may
> have built in the past, by your own admission you
> never actually operated any of them, so your
> involvement with submarines is still limited to
> exercises in theory and is unsupported by any
> practical experience.
>
> Mike, as far as "back engineering 19th century
> designs", I suppose you mean Simon Lake's Argonaut
> Junior. I've read about it in the archive. I think
> I also read you've been exploring submarine design
> for something like twenty years (?), but haven't
> haven't actually gotten around to building one, or
> at least not the Argonaut Junior. When were you
> planning on starting? It would seem to me that
> fifteen or twenty years spent contemplating
> something that had never come to fruition would be
> an indicator that perhaps one was better suited for
> something else?
>
> And Steve, it's wonderful that Psubs is frequented
> by physicists, archaeologists, astronomers,
> psychologists, and divers. On a website dealing
> with those subjects, I'm sure their advice would be
> most welcome. Psubs is declaredly about the
> "design, building, and operating" of personal
> submersibles, though.
>
> I agree the internet is a wonderful place to get
> information, but I think the information should be
> reliable and come from people with hard experience.
> Giving advice on how to build subs when you haven't
> proven yourself yet is irresponsible, and a lot of
> you guys here do that all the time.
>
> After reading through the archive, I see there are a
> few experienced people still here occasionally. I
> feel I can rely on what they have to say. But I
> also see there have been a lot of other experienced
> people who once participated on this website, (and
> in fact provided the bulk of the information
> available at Psubs), but no longer do. In their
> absence, I see a continuing cycle of new arrivals
> come and go, trying to take their place as
> information sources to others wanting to build
> submarines, mostly repackaging what has been said
> before, and passing it off as their own, sometimes
> inaccurately. As an illustrative analogy, that's
> like a guy who has only seen war movies trying to
> tell other people what actual combat is like. And
> so, the credibility of this website suffers.
>
> On a positive note, I will say that, in recent days,
> I have seen a shift in this group from silliness to
> a greater focus on technical discussion. That's
> good. But it's the inexperience level of those
> offering technical advice I find questionable.
>
> Honestly, I think most of the people in this group
> are more serious about socializing and furthering
> this website as a visible presence than they are
> about actually building and operating submersibles.
> From what I've read, that has led to a split between
> experienced and non-experienced psubbers, and as a
> result, most of the experienced guys are gone, and
> what remains are predominantly unexperienced people
> more intent on camaraderie than construction.
> That's my opinion based on a study of the archive
>
> I offer this as constructive criticism aimed at
> improving what I see are flaws in our group, not
> criticism for criticism's sake alone. If your
> feelings are hurt by what I say, I'm sorry.
>
> If you guys want to talk about submarines, that's
> fine. But please don't tell newcomers that you are
> "the best" or "the only" source of information about
> subs, because you're not.
>
> Best,
>
> Gail
>
>
>
> Michael B Holt <tlohm@juno.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 02:12:18 -0800 (PST) Gail Paleka
> writes:
>
> >
> >Welcome to Psubs. Here you will find people very
> willing to give
> >advice about submarines. What Carl, Steve, and Mike
> didn't tell you,
> >though, is that they haven't actually built a
> submarine yet. Just
> >thought you should know so you can put their advice
> into proper
> >perspective.
>
> Check your facts, first, Gail. I built a
> Markham-style boat
> that never got used due to a medical problem I
> developed. I've
> reverse-engineered a pair of very old submarines
> (19th -century)
> and I've designed (but never built) a gliding
> ambient diver's
> vehicle. No one ever asked about this, so there was
> no reason
> to talk about it.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
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