RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST]:RE: PSUB RipOff!!

["Gregory B. Snyder" <snyder@mnrad.com>]

Here, Here Dave -
Way to own up.
I ordered some sub plans from Popular Mechanics DIY page and got a few
line drawings that basically said:
1> build a sub hull.
2> build a battery box
3> Have fun...

Not much of anything but a couple of line drawings of a guy sitting in a
bubble.  I feel your pain.  On the other hand, Jon and Ray are straight
up guys. I commend you for owning up to the rage and apologizing.
Thanks !
Greg


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of david
cutajar
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 10:54 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]:RE: PSUB RipOff!!

Steve,

Nothing against Jon - I didn't think the offering was
from an individual, rather the site. My mistake.

I agree I should have "talked" to Jon offsite - Sorry
about that; and it sucks getting emails like this when
everyone is looking for positive usefull information.

Truth is I didn't think to contact an individual,

So - Sorry about that, group.

-David Cutajar



--- Steven Mills <cirtemoeg@juno.com> wrote:
> Well, I'm going to step in here and hopefully won't
> "step-in-it" and
> ruffle
> any feathers.  I don't want to invalidate your
> grievance and displeasure
> over this, paying and waiting for something that
> does not meet your
> expectations
> are understandable.
> 
> But, I think I would have discussed this with Jon
> "offlist" first then if
> I didn't
> receive satisfactory reasons/answers, then I may air
> my displeasure
> onlist.
> I only know Jon through this forum, but, from my
> impressions over the
> 2+years
> since joining pSubs, I do not think he intentionally
> "ripped" you off.
> Some of us, if not all, are avid collectors of "any"
> info that has the
> word "sub"
> in it. I know I have had my share of less than
> expected products, plans,
> books, etc.,
> [ not from pSubs ].  A few years ago I could hardly
> find much info on
> personal
> submersib;es, but I have the feeling with forums
> like pSubs and others
> that
> have popularized and generated interest in subs, I'm
> seeing more and more
> documentation and books on the subject.
> 
> I've seen the offer for the K250 plan. I am planning
> on ordering it, but
> my expectations
> of it didn't fit the criteria that you expected.  I
> didn't think it was
> something I could
> build something on except whet my imagination and
> give me visual ideas.
> But....that's
> me. Also, having been on pSubs for a while, I know
> there are people here
> who
> have built the K250 and I know I can rely on their
> advice and counsel
> regarding
> parts, pitfalls, what to do...not do, etc., while
> having the k250 pic in
> front of me and
> adding copious notes from what I learn on the forum.
> 
> Well, I hope I haven't fuelled your anger any more
> than it is. That was
> not my intent.
> However, don't judge Jon or the forum by this.
> 
> Thanks, --Steve
>   
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:48:14 -0800 (PST) david
> cutajar
> <davecutajar@djcengineering.com> writes:
> > Yup, that's right- PSUB Ripoff!! Who would have
> > thought that??Maybe if I purchased from Ebay, but
> from
> > PSUB?????
> > 
> > I recently purchased the K250 pressure hull plan
> from
> > the online store on the Psub.org website.
> > 
> > This one page plan is touted as:
> > 
> >  " an excellent resource as a starting point for
> those
> > who want to construct their own submersible. ".
> > 
> > I Paid by PayPal - Payment  To  Jonathan Wallace
> on
> > Jan. 24, 2004;
> > 
> > I received the package today Feb. 23, 2004.
> > 
> > I purchased the plan, thinking it would be a good
> > reference source (as they claimed).
> > 
> > As you may suspect, I am very disapointed in the
> > print. It is terrible, and offers NO value. 
> > 
> > The BOM (Bill Of Material) only references Part
> > numbers - i.e. there is no information on anything
> > that is of value: for example if you were curious
> as
> > to what size rings (hull frame)were used - or the
> > rings thickness etc., all you will realize is that
> it
> > is detail #3 part number K250-007 - Completely
> > Useless.
> > 
> > Curious about the diameter of the forward
> viewport?
> > too bad - all it says is part number K250-020.
> > 
> > After a much anticipated wait of one month I
> cannot
> > believe how bad I got ripped off, and the worst
> part
> > is I waited a month.
> > 
> > Obtaining this Item from PSUB made me feel secure
> in
> > my purchase. The description in PSUB is not
> accurate.
> > 
> > This item is BENEATH this fine web site and I
> implore
> > you to REMOVE this item from the online store as
> it is
> > a complete rip-off.
> > 
> > I am the owner of an engineering firm (just north
> of
> > Detoit, MI). We design and manufacture industrial
> > equipment from clean room enviroments to foundry
> > equipment. We often get jobs that are too complex
> or
> > technical for other companies and we have designed
> > laser welders,camera & optics, specialty machines
> for
> > fuel cell processes, robotic cells of all sorts,
> > secondary plastics equipment, entire plant lines,
> Mig,
> > tig, laser cells, non- destruct inspection equip,
> > material handling etc., etc., etc. We do small
> tools
> > such as operator assisted tools for assembly
> plants,
> > to complete manufacturing lines & engineering
> ($110M).
> > Many of these industries require a large amount of
> > R&D. 
> > 
> > I have been doing alot of R&D, for the design I am
> > working on for (2) one person subs, that I plan to
> > build and certify together. The subs can be
> operated
> > in a "connected" mode, or detached, operating both
> > together in a "buddy-system" fashion, like SCUBA
> for
> > safety.
> > 
> > I started out as a machinist in High School, where
> I
> > took 1st in the state every year; I was a project
> > leader (for a company)when I was still in High
> School;
> > I became a fixture builder, then Model Maker (that
> > industry went out), CNC operator, CAD operator,
> > designer, Special Machines & Gages, BIW process
> and
> > tooling.
> > 
> > I don't do the hands on as much anymore - I havn't
> > been on Catia or UG for years, but I can find my
> way
> > around Mech-Desktop though.
> > 
> > I'm not bragging or preaching to this group - I
> know
> > there is a ton of knowledge and talent in this
> group.
> > I just wanted to let you know that I am not a
> complete
> > idiot, and that I have been around a shop,
> wrenches,
> > torches and prints for my entire life, and that
> this
> > print sucked (hard).
> > 
> > If anyone wants a copy, I will scan it (into
> several
> > (4?) sections) and give them to you free; but
> please
> > do not purchase this as you will be disapointed.
> > 
> > Sorry for the negative email.
> > 
> > Sincerely,
> > 
> > David Cutajar
> > DJC Engineering
> > 
> > davecutajar@yahoo.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
>
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