Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST]:RE: PSUB RipOff!!

[Steven Mills <cirtemoeg@juno.com>]

david cutajar <davecutajar@djcengineering.com> writes:
> Steve,
> 
> I agree I should have "talked" to Jon offsite - Sorry
> about that; and it sucks getting emails like this when
> everyone is looking for positive usefull information.
> 
> So - Sorry about that, group.
> 

David,

No problem.  There's no malice or misgivings here...just Subs  :-)

' Hate to think back over the many times I've gotten angry over
something.

Looking forward to your design[]s and sage advice too!

cheers, --Steve



> 
> --- Steven Mills <cirtemoeg@juno.com> wrote:
> > Well, I'm going to step in here and hopefully won't
> > "step-in-it" and
> > ruffle
> > any feathers.  I don't want to invalidate your
> > grievance and displeasure
> > over this, paying and waiting for something that
> > does not meet your
> > expectations
> > are understandable.
> > 
> > But, I think I would have discussed this with Jon
> > "offlist" first then if
> > I didn't
> > receive satisfactory reasons/answers, then I may air
> > my displeasure
> > onlist.
> > I only know Jon through this forum, but, from my
> > impressions over the
> > 2+years
> > since joining pSubs, I do not think he intentionally
> > "ripped" you off.
> > Some of us, if not all, are avid collectors of "any"
> > info that has the
> > word "sub"
> > in it. I know I have had my share of less than
> > expected products, plans,
> > books, etc.,
> > [ not from pSubs ].  A few years ago I could hardly
> > find much info on
> > personal
> > submersib;es, but I have the feeling with forums
> > like pSubs and others
> > that
> > have popularized and generated interest in subs, I'm
> > seeing more and more
> > documentation and books on the subject.
> > 
> > I've seen the offer for the K250 plan. I am planning
> > on ordering it, but
> > my expectations
> > of it didn't fit the criteria that you expected.  I
> > didn't think it was
> > something I could
> > build something on except whet my imagination and
> > give me visual ideas.
> > But....that's
> > me. Also, having been on pSubs for a while, I know
> > there are people here
> > who
> > have built the K250 and I know I can rely on their
> > advice and counsel
> > regarding
> > parts, pitfalls, what to do...not do, etc., while
> > having the k250 pic in
> > front of me and
> > adding copious notes from what I learn on the forum.
> > 
> > Well, I hope I haven't fuelled your anger any more
> > than it is. That was
> > not my intent.
> > However, don't judge Jon or the forum by this.
> > 
> > Thanks, --Steve
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:48:14 -0800 (PST) david
> > cutajar
> > <davecutajar@djcengineering.com> writes:
> > > Yup, that's right- PSUB Ripoff!! Who would have
> > > thought that??Maybe if I purchased from Ebay, but
> > from
> > > PSUB?????
> > > 
> > > I recently purchased the K250 pressure hull plan
> > from
> > > the online store on the Psub.org website.
> > > 
> > > This one page plan is touted as:
> > > 
> > >  " an excellent resource as a starting point for
> > those
> > > who want to construct their own submersible. ".
> > > 
> > > I Paid by PayPal - Payment  To  Jonathan Wallace
> > on
> > > Jan. 24, 2004;
> > > 
> > > I received the package today Feb. 23, 2004.
> > > 
> > > I purchased the plan, thinking it would be a good
> > > reference source (as they claimed).
> > > 
> > > As you may suspect, I am very disapointed in the
> > > print. It is terrible, and offers NO value. 
> > > 
> > > The BOM (Bill Of Material) only references Part
> > > numbers - i.e. there is no information on anything
> > > that is of value: for example if you were curious
> > as
> > > to what size rings (hull frame)were used - or the
> > > rings thickness etc., all you will realize is that
> > it
> > > is detail #3 part number K250-007 - Completely
> > > Useless.
> > > 
> > > Curious about the diameter of the forward
> > viewport?
> > > too bad - all it says is part number K250-020.
> > > 
> > > After a much anticipated wait of one month I
> > cannot
> > > believe how bad I got ripped off, and the worst
> > part
> > > is I waited a month.
> > > 
> > > Obtaining this Item from PSUB made me feel secure
> > in
> > > my purchase. The description in PSUB is not
> > accurate.
> > > 
> > > This item is BENEATH this fine web site and I
> > implore
> > > you to REMOVE this item from the online store as
> > it is
> > > a complete rip-off.
> > > 
> > > I am the owner of an engineering firm (just north
> > of
> > > Detoit, MI). We design and manufacture industrial
> > > equipment from clean room enviroments to foundry
> > > equipment. We often get jobs that are too complex
> > or
> > > technical for other companies and we have designed
> > > laser welders,camera & optics, specialty machines
> > for
> > > fuel cell processes, robotic cells of all sorts,
> > > secondary plastics equipment, entire plant lines,
> > Mig,
> > > tig, laser cells, non- destruct inspection equip,
> > > material handling etc., etc., etc. We do small
> > tools
> > > such as operator assisted tools for assembly
> > plants,
> > > to complete manufacturing lines & engineering
> > ($110M).
> > > Many of these industries require a large amount of
> > > R&D. 
> > > 
> > > I have been doing alot of R&D, for the design I am
> > > working on for (2) one person subs, that I plan to
> > > build and certify together. The subs can be
> > operated
> > > in a "connected" mode, or detached, operating both
> > > together in a "buddy-system" fashion, like SCUBA
> > for
> > > safety.
> > > 
> > > I started out as a machinist in High School, where
> > I
> > > took 1st in the state every year; I was a project
> > > leader (for a company)when I was still in High
> > School;
> > > I became a fixture builder, then Model Maker (that
> > > industry went out), CNC operator, CAD operator,
> > > designer, Special Machines & Gages, BIW process
> > and
> > > tooling.
> > > 
> > > I don't do the hands on as much anymore - I havn't
> > > been on Catia or UG for years, but I can find my
> > way
> > > around Mech-Desktop though.
> > > 
> > > I'm not bragging or preaching to this group - I
> > know
> > > there is a ton of knowledge and talent in this
> > group.
> > > I just wanted to let you know that I am not a
> > complete
> > > idiot, and that I have been around a shop,
> > wrenches,
> > > torches and prints for my entire life, and that
> > this
> > > print sucked (hard).
> > > 
> > > If anyone wants a copy, I will scan it (into
> > several
> > > (4?) sections) and give them to you free; but
> > please
> > > do not purchase this as you will be disapointed.
> > > 
> > > Sorry for the negative email.
> > > 
> > > Sincerely,
> > > 
> > > David Cutajar
> > > DJC Engineering
> > > 
> > > davecutajar@yahoo.com
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> >
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> 


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